Day 12

Missouri

08/13/2011

202 Comments

Conversations and Cornbread
by Aman Ali

My knowledge of what Ahmadiyya Muslims believe is limited. But off the bat, let’s clarify some misconceptions you might have about them. Yes, they pray five times a day, believe in Prophet Muhammad, fast during Ramadan and follow many other fundamentals of Islam. No, they don’t eat babies for breakfast.

I’ve never been to an Ahmadi mosque and know very few of them in general. But when talking about the history of Muslims in this country, their contributions to society are often swept under the rug. For that reason, we went to St. Louis to visit the Ahmadis, a Muslim community that has been in the area since the 1920s.

The basic difference between Ahmadis and mainstream Sunni Muslims deals with the death of Jesus. Muslims believe Jesus is currently in heaven and his return as The Messiah to signal the Day of Judgment. Ahmadis believe a man named in India named Mirza Gullam Ahmed in the 1800s was actually The Messiah.

We’re welcomed to the mosque by Basiyr Rodney. His brain is just as sharp as his fashion sense and he speaks with a subtle Jamaican accent. His glasses rest a few centimeters down on his nose to complete the distinguished professor look he may or may not have been going for.

We begin our conversation by talking about Muslim American history. Many people might not know this, but the Ahmadis are credited with being one of the first groups of people that spread Islam throughout the United States on a large scale in the 1920s.

“In the early days when people wanted to connect to Islam, there really weren’t any books out there so people turned to the Ahmadis,” Basiyr said. “It’s in our culture to do this because we believe it is our duty as a Muslim to convey the message of Islam.”

Ahmadis focus heavily on a spiritual leadership system called the khilafat. The khilafa oversees the global Ahmadi community and there are national, regional and local presidents that run the day-to-day operations. Basiyr said it helps make the community run smoothly and curbs bickering and arguing that other Muslim organizations might deal with.

All the khilafats in Ahmadi history. The khilafats are chosen in the same way an electoral college chooses a U.S. President

“We have a very organized system that brings in a sense of accountability,” Basiyr said. “When the khilafat says build a mosque, you build a mosque. If there is some arguing happening, the khilafat will send a representative and say ‘They need a mosque, but their emotions are tied up in it,’ and it gets done.”

The $1.5 million mosque here was built in 2008. Basiyr said it took roughly 3-4 years to build from planning to finish. Many Muslim communities I’ve visited spend 3-4 years just to figure out what to name a place.

In midst of his thought, the mosque’s imam walks into the room. He’s an elderly South Asian man that speaks with an adorably thick Urdu accent. He too is a snazzy dresser sporting an outfit that would make Hamid Karzai jealous.

Many Muslims often label Ahmadiyyas as a deviant group (some might even call them non-Muslims) because they believe Prophet Muhammad wasn’t the last prophet. I asked the imam what it feels like to get labeled as such.

“There is no prophet  that ever came that a majority of people did not reject,” he said. “Christianity is one of the biggest religions in the world right now. At the time when Jesus died, how many people believed in him? Eleven.”

“It comes with the territory of being an Ahmadi,” Basiyr chimed in. “It’s the recognition that you’re not always going to be accepted by the general group of Muslims because even though our beliefs are not fundamentally different, it really is jarring to some people. We recognize that and it’s a part of our identifier.”

Our conversation is cut short by the call to prayer, signifying it is time to break the fast for the day. For dinner, the community prepared a mouth watering array of soul food including fried chicken, catfish, collard greens and pie. But my favorite dish of the evening was the cornbread. It had a fluffy texture with a subtle buttery sweetness that so delectable, it made me want to slap someone.

After dinner and prayer, I had a brief conversation with the women in the mosque, curious to find out what their roles in the community were like. Basiyr’s wife Tamara told me Ahmadiyas actually have a group in each community called the women’s auxiliary that is responsible for overseeing all things regarding female activities.

“As long as you have at least three women in a community, you start this organization,” Tamara said. “There have also been several women presidents over the years. Women have had roles of leadership in the Ahmadi community for decades.”

Which is interesting, because in many other Muslim communities, a women leading an Islamic organization would have created a massive uproar until a few years ago.

I was surprised to find out there are only around 150-200 Ahmadi Muslims in St. Louis. How on earth then did they build a $1.5 million mosque? Tamara said Ahmadis donate 1/16 of their income every year to the Ahmadi community (not obligatory to do this). A lot of the funding for the St. Louis mosque came from the 10-15,000 people that make up the Ahmadi community across the United States.

“We recognize in order for any message, particularly Islam, to grow, it requires the financial sacrifice of people in the community,” she said.

I asked the same question to Tamara that I raised for her husband, how she feels about being labeled as a deviant group or something outside Islam. She said when non-Muslims look at mainstream Muslims and Ahmadis, they don’t see the rigid differences.

“If someone sees me in the street, they don’t say “Oh, is that an Ahmadi Muslim?” she said. “No, they might just say ‘Asalam Alaikum’ because all they see is a Muslim woman.”

It’s time to for me to go and I have the most important question for them of the night. WHO MADE THAT AWESOME CORNBREAD???? One of the women chuckles and says her mother made them. I tell her I will go home tonight and pray that Allah reward her for putting together such a scrumptious concoction.

Regardless of how you feel about Ahmadis, you have to give credit where it is due. They helped introduce the United States to Islam. They also seem to run their communities much more efficiently than many other Muslims run theirs. So instead of marginalizing Ahmadis, there’s a lot we can learn from them. Especially if you consider the fact  that only .8 percent of the United States population is Muslim, we don’t have the luxury of dividing ourselves.

With a Ziploc bag of leftovers in hand, I walked out of the mosque thanking the Ahmadis in St. Louis for a wonderful evening of conversation and cornbread.

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  • C Mavroleon

    wonderful evening – i ate three pieces of cornbread myself

  • Yasmeen

    Nice article.  Although, I strong disbelieve in what they believe in, it’s always nice to learn about one another.

    • Merp

      Agreed…

    • Abuladd

      Dear Sister Yasmeen,  Peace be upon you.
      You know that saying….we should be careful what we wish for?
      What you have just stated for the world to see is that:
      You do not believe in Islam, you do not believe in the Holy Quran, you do not believe that Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets, you do not believe that Jesus (as) is dead, like all other Prophets are dead.  You do not believe in tolerance in faith, etc., etc.
      The fact is that you do not know what Ahmadies believe.  If you will give me one example of something that Ahmadies believe I will know that you do know something.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        She also doesnt believe in a scam artist from India claiming to be a prophet.

        • Brother

          Agreed. A scam artist of the highest caliber and this article does not change my opinion on Ahmadiyyas.

  • Hibba Tul W Haadi

    We really enjoyed having you brothers dine and pray with us…. We hope to see you again soon.. Insha Allah.

  • Taslim

    Thank you for this lovely post, and for clarifying some of their beliefs–and emphasizing the tolerance and inclusion we should all strive for in this Deen. Our MSA in university was made up of a very strong core group of Sunni’s, Shia’s, and Ahmadi’s–the only people not welcome were those who could not be inclusive enough to accept and pray with all of these groups, and surprisingly there was very few. It was amazing and some of the best years of my life filled with deep friendships, learning from one another and our shared and different beliefs, and striving together as a group for the pleasure of Allah. This post reminded me of its sweetness. Thanks for sharing!

  • Hijabiheather

    …”we don’t have the luxury of dividing ourselves.” So true.  Practices and specific tenets of belief of one Muslim group are *always* going to cause controversy and disagreement – just think of the definite differences between the Salafi, Sufi, Shi’a, Progressives, Conservatives – not to mention disagreements between cultural groups about the “proper” way to practice Islam.  We don’t have to agree with everyone’s point of view about Islam, nor should we.  But we *don’t* have to let that divide us.  We are strongest, and most effective, when working together for the benefit of the Ummah and  the glory of Allah SWT. Now, I DO have a rather specific point of view on these issues, but that’s between me and my Lord, really.  I’m more than happy to associate with, and work with, anyone who also  offers salat and zakat, who recognizes Allah as God with no partners, who acknowledges Muhammad as the servant and prophet of Allah.  In the end, we each stand before Allah SWT and on that day (and not before) will the things we differed on be made clear to us.  We DON’T have the luxury of dividing ourselves along sect lines; “hold fast to the rope of Allah, ALL OF YOU.” 

  • A K

    Good find, love to hear from ‘em all. One of the progressive communities of Islam. Guys, are u fixin’ to hang out @ Synott in Houston? If so, when? Tks and have a sizzlin’ homecoming……

  • Hubulislam

    There are only 8% of us in America, WOW!!! I alway thought there were many more of us. :)
    @aeb58c6bacc6f84ab544ed08c7145b2d:disqus 

    • Elyas

      This stat is totally false.There are about 8 million Muslim in America.

  • Elyas

    May Allah guide on the righteous path, surely they are a lost group of people. Lets pray for them. Thats all.

    Btw, now let the flood gates of critcism against me come. People like Rayan(unofficial officer of being PC)…

    • Sister in Islam

      I think Rayan replied perfectly when he quoted Allah swt words in the Qur’an from Surat Hujurat – in this month of months, you should remember that His words are the most powerful. You are committing ghiba- clearly and repeatedly- and since you are insistent on pointing out where everyone else has gone astray, I just wanted to point this fact out.  Please stop saying things about another brother in a disrespectful and sarcastic manner. This will perhaps be what stands between you and jannah on the day of judgement, while many others you choose to look down upon might quickly enter paradise before you. May Allah forgive me for doing this in a public forum as it is best to give nasiha to an individual not in front of others. 

      If you have problems with the content of the blog, reply with adab. Read surat hujurat regarding how Allah swt expects you to interact with your fellow human beings, it is a beautiful reminder about the things that really destroy hearts, minds and communities. Many of us think we are doing the right thing by standing up and speaking “truth” when in actuality we are committing sin with our tongues and in this case, with our fingers.

      • Elyas

        I assure Miss that you do not guard the gates of heaven and surely only Allah knows who’s more close to entering Jannah between two people on this Adunya. Therefore, you better off concentrating on your own deeds then telling me how I might miss jannat itself.

        Btw, is Rayan your punjabi cousin or something? Apparently there is kinship going on here. Otherwise you would’ve understood how they are diluting the prestine religion of Islam by introducing us to heretics.

      • Abuladd

        Dear Sister in Islam,  Assalamo Alaikum.
        May Allah reward you for trying to give good advice and guidance, however, as your older brother in Islam, I have to advise you that according to the Book….when you meet “them”, you say Peace……and move on.

        • Sister in Islam

           Dear Br. Elyas, I just wanted to say I was only defending a fellow Muslim from slander, not agreeing with everything he has said or done on this blog. I do not guard the gates to jannah, neither does any other human being, that is Allah’s power and for you to accuse me of even implying that is very disrespectful,, audhubilllah.  I was simply stating what the ayah says- that only Allah knows what is in the hearts.  You seem to have a strong passion for jumping to accuse others of wrongdoing instead of reflecting on what they are actually saying before you write.  Reflection is the most oft repeated action encouraged by Allah swt in Qur’an. Reflect/think and then act. 

           Thanks Abuladd for your kind words.  It is sometimes best to say peace
          and move on. May Allah and His message always be the guide of our
          hearts, minds, tongues and bodies. That was the only thing I was actually trying to say in my original post.

          Perhaps some of these comments should be deleted, because in many ways they are slanderous and encourage the Muslim community towards fitna. There is a difference between freedom of expression/critical commentary/open discussion and just plain old bullying and name calling. 

          • Elyas

            Listen Sister in Islam, all i’ve done was refuse to except that Ahmadiyans are anyway, shape or form related to Islam. You can cry me a river and I wont except your attempt to make me feel I have slandered someone. Just give up sister, you are not gona change my mind. We will only agree to disagree. Nevertheless, I wish you Jannatul Fardos. I hope you wish it too..Lighten up Sister.

          • Abuladd

            Dear Sister in Islam, Assalamo Alaikum.  As painful as it may be for you to read the “minds” of some of our Muslim brethren and sisters, the reality is what it is. 

            To many of our people are judgmental to a fault, not recognizing within their criticism and slander their own weakness, failings and intolerance and not to speak of not having a clue about the “Sunnat” of our Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Alllah be upon him.

            The murders of innocents is accompanied by cries of Allahu Akbar!  Assassins are paraded as heroes!  Churches and Synagouges and Mosques are bombed, burned and destroyed!  All in the name of Islam!

            The hearts of the believers are overwhelmed with tears and grief and shame at the spectacle that the so called Muslims present to the world.  When will this madness end? Oh Allah we beseech you!

  • Alibod1

    Good reporting Aman
    Dad

  • TRC

    Great post. I’m sunni muslim, but some of the best people i know are ahmadi. In the end, regardless of our beliefs, we are all humans and each person deserves respect. Some of the ways Sunnis have treated ahmadis in the past is out right disturbing. We have to learn to be more respectful and understanding of other people whether they be sunni, ahmadi, shia, etc. It’s not our call to judge, it’s for Allah to decide. Let’s leave it up to him, iA.

    • Abuladd

      Dear TRC.  Peace be upon you.  Your post reminds me of the time that the early Muslims fled to Abbassyiniya (Etheopia) sp?   They were followed by the Pagan Arabs who tried to turn the Negus against them and asked that they be expelled.  Yet, when the Negus asked them questions about the Muslims the Pagans answered honestly.
      Likewise, you give glowing remarks that Ahmadies are some of the “best people I know: Unquote.  Why do you think that is?
      What is it about the treatment of Ahmadies by the “Sunnis” that is disturbing to you?  Is it the Murders?  The beatings, the discrimination in all fields?  The falsehoods that are told about them?
      Yes TRC, we all deserve respect.  That in fact is the Sunnat of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.   Intolerance, bigotry, murder, looting, foul and wrong accusations are not “the way of the Prophet”.
      I am a Sunni.  I follow the “way of the Prophet” , peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, as best as I can, and I challenge anyone to show that it is Sunnat to engage in the behavior of those who are against Ahmadies.

  • http://twitter.com/Dervish_Twirl Dervish_Twirl

    Awesome, if was a great having you guys come by our Mosque. We really appreciate your open-minds, fairness and tolerance. We welcome you guys to return anytime and have another helping of my Umi’s cornbread

    • http://twitter.com/AhlamS Ahlam S.

      small world :)

  • http://twitter.com/uroobajamal Urooba Jamal

    THANK YOOH for yet another insightful post.

    (*30 Mosques is my post-Taraweeh read. =))

    *one of my favorite things about Ramadan!

  • Pingback: Conversations and Cornbread

  • Abu Saafir

    I have many Christian and Hindu friends ( dont really know many Jews or Buddhist yet, lol).  As a Sunni Muslim i have much more in common with an Ahmadi then with the previously mentioned orientations.  I strongly will agree to disagree with their beliefs but that doesnt mean i have animosity towards any of them.  Lets pray for them, lets give the Ahmadis some Da’wa and insha’Allah they are not too far from the right path.  Lets also include Shi’a Sufi and Nation of Islam in this supplication that insha”Allah ta’Allah they follow the Sunnah of the prophet SAW and that this Ummah be united not divided.  Ameen

    • Hussainkhalid88

      Dear Abu Saafir…Ahmadiyyat is nothing but the TRUE and ORIGINAL ISLAM…I smile at your wish to give Dawah to Ahmadis…Dear towards which Islam you want to invite me ?? I am an Ahmadi Muslim. Who is Muslim ?? Muslims are divided into 73 sects. Which sect represents TRUE ISLAM ??? Each sect claims to be representing true Islam and blame the others to be non-muslims and kaafirs…so I invite you towards  Ahmadiyyat, which represents true Islam…please visit http://www.alislam.org

      • Brother

        Barf.

    • Abuladd

      Dear Brother Abu Saafir, Assalamo Alaikum.  I appreciate your good sentiments and I welcome your prayers on my behalf.  I also welcome your Da’wa.  I converted to Islam some years ago….in Gambia….where I was surrounded by what you call “Sunni Muslims”.  After I read the Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam and Invitation to Ahmadiyyat, I joined the Ahmadi Muslim Community.  When I first joined Islam, all I knew was La illha il Allah.  I was not clear about Muhammad Rasulullah as I knew nothing about him.(saws)  But I have spent many years now studying his life and practice and I am completely comfortable in stating that the majority of Muslims in the world know little or nothing about him, or at least I can assure you that they don’t follow his teachings.  I won’t bore you with all the so called Muslim countries that I have visited in search of Islam, but the list is extensive and includes Pakistan and Egypt, Turkey, Mauritania, Morocco, et al.  I also see many Muslims from various countries in the USA and their behaviour and life style are offensive to the memory of the Prophet.(saws)
      So… having laid out that short pre-amble I look forward to your help and I leave open for you the possibility that I have been mislead by these Ahmadies and that it is possible (for the sake of our discussion)  that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a liar and deceiver. 

      Thus, I welcome your guidance.  For sake of clarity I would ask you if you have ever read any book written by Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or any of his Khulufa?
      Do you believe in the Hadith that the Muslims would become just like the Jews?
      Do you believe that Jesus (as) is alive in Heaven?
      Do you believe that Muhammad (saws) is the last prophet?
      What makes a person a muslim?

      These few questions can start your Da’wa and I look forward to your response.

      • Rayan

        I do not want to proselytize, but you have asked, and I feel inclined to provide some colour. The primary difference between Sunnis & Shias versus Ahmadis can be found in these ayats below which Ahmadis interpret in other ways and dismiss. 

        “That they said (in boast), “We Killed Christ, Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (Certain knowledge), but only conjecture to follow, for a surety they killed him not.  Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.  And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them.”

        The Qur’an, Chapter 4 Verse 157-159

        • Humanity

          This is for Rayan. You quoted verse 4:157-159 as proof of
          Jesus being saved by Allah from the cross. To your surprise, Ahmadi Muslims
          believe this verse to be 100% correct, while you are trying to imply that Ahmadi Muslims do not.

          There are 2 answers for your misconception: (a) that you are
          falsely accusing Ahamdi’s against their belief. (b) For your knowledge, this
          verse is revealed by Allah to discredit Jewish claim that they killed Jesus on
          the cross ito prove that Jesus was a false prophet. And secondly, to discredit
          Christians who believe that Jesus (as son of God) died for their sins. So Allah
          is clearing the misconceptions of both Jews and Christians about Jesus…

          How in the world do you use this pure and un-ambiguous verse
          of Quran to justify your false accusation against the Ahmadi Muslims? All it
          proved is your complete lack of understanding of Holy Quran. The two verses below
          may help you understand why you are misguided?  

          2:3 (…, it
          is a guidance for
          the righteous) and 2:11 (In their hearts was a disease, and Allah has increased
          their disease to them; and for them is a grievous punishment because they
          used to lie).

          • Rayan

            Ahamdis believe Jesus, may be peace be upon died in Kashmir.  I do not, most Muslims do not.  

            Ahmadis to translate it differently as I accidentally purchased a used Ahmadi Qur’an and have seen the difference in how it is translated.  Almost every Ahmadi is Pakistani and hence has a poor knowledge of Arabic, so translations matter. 

            I do not want to debate whether Jesus died in Kashmir or not.  I believe he was raised to Allah and will return as the Messiah.  Yes, I speak Arabic and very aware of what was being said. 

            I apologize if you feel insulted by this or if I was wrong about what is the source of Ahmadi’s beliefs, but I do know, having visited the site that Ahmadis claim Jesus is buried in, that this belief and the other Muslim beliefs are irreconcilable. 

          • Aqeel

            Asalamoalikum Rayan
            You have the right to believe whatever you like no questions asked. I have asked many Muslim non-Ahmedi scholar to show me in the holy Quran which Arabic word is used with Jesus(as) and the word sky. To my knowledge there is none. If you mean the words ‘I have raised him to me’ would imply that (nazubillah) Jesus(as) is like Allah and everywhere. Remember Allah is everywhere. Remember Jesus(as) is a physical entity and Allah is a spiritual one.  Surely this would be a Christian faith rather than a Muslim one.
            kind regards
            Aqeel

          • Aqeel

            Asalamoalikum Rayan
            You have the right to believe whatever you like no questions asked. I have asked many Muslim non-Ahmedi scholar to show me in the holy Quran which Arabic word is used with Jesus(as) and the word sky. To my knowledge there is none. If you mean the words ‘I have raised him to me’ would imply that (nazubillah) Jesus(as) is like Allah and everywhere. Remember Allah is everywhere. Remember Jesus(as) is a physical entity and Allah is a spiritual one.  Surely this would be a Christian faith rather than a Muslim one.
            kind regards
            Aqeel

          • Aqeel

            Asalamoalikum Rayan
            You have the right to believe whatever you like no questions asked. I have asked many Muslim non-Ahmedi scholar to show me in the holy Quran which Arabic word is used with Jesus(as) and the word sky. To my knowledge there is none. If you mean the words ‘I have raised him to me’ would imply that (nazubillah) Jesus(as) is like Allah and everywhere. Remember Allah is everywhere. Remember Jesus(as) is a physical entity and Allah is a spiritual one.  Surely this would be a Christian faith rather than a Muslim one.
            kind regards
            Aqeel

          • Aqeel

            Asalamoalikum Rayan
            You have the right to believe whatever you like no questions asked. I have asked many Muslim non-Ahmedi scholar to show me in the holy Quran which Arabic word is used with Jesus(as) and the word sky. To my knowledge there is none. If you mean the words ‘I have raised him to me’ would imply that (nazubillah) Jesus(as) is like Allah and everywhere. Remember Allah is everywhere. Remember Jesus(as) is a physical entity and Allah is a spiritual one.  Surely this would be a Christian faith rather than a Muslim one.
            kind regards
            Aqeel

          • Aqeel

            Asalamoalikum Rayan
            You have the right to believe whatever you like no questions asked. I have asked many Muslim non-Ahmedi scholar to show me in the holy Quran which Arabic word is used with Jesus(as) and the word sky. To my knowledge there is none. If you mean the words ‘I have raised him to me’ would imply that (nazubillah) Jesus(as) is like Allah and everywhere. Remember Allah is everywhere. Remember Jesus(as) is a physical entity and Allah is a spiritual one.  Surely this would be a Christian faith rather than a Muslim one.
            kind regards
            Aqeel

          • Aqeel

            Asalamoalikum Rayan
            You have the right to believe whatever you like no questions asked. I have asked many Muslim non-Ahmedi scholar to show me in the holy Quran which Arabic word is used with Jesus(as) and the word sky. To my knowledge there is none. If you mean the words ‘I have raised him to me’ would imply that (nazubillah) Jesus(as) is like Allah and everywhere. Remember Allah is everywhere. Remember Jesus(as) is a physical entity and Allah is a spiritual one.  Surely this would be a Christian faith rather than a Muslim one.
            kind regards
            Aqeel

        • Abuladd

          Dear Brother Ryan,  Assalamo alaikum.
          Thank you for your response and by all means do proselytize!  I have submitted, for the sake of our discussion, that the Ahmadies might have misled me.  You and I know that there are many liars and deceivers in the world.  Surely, my Faith is important to you, indeed, it is your duty to guide me to the “straight path”, if you are able to do it and I am certainly willing to accept right guidance.

          I am familiar with the verse you quote Chapter 4: vs 157-159.  In which way do the Ahmadies interpret this verse in other ways and dismiss?  The Ahmadies have taught me that Jesus did not die on the cross, he only appeared dead,  see that’s why the Roman soldier stabbed Jesus (peace be upon him) in the side with that spear. 

          But please explain and clarify for me how they interpret in a way which is not correct.  Thank you.

    • TolerancePeace

      Dear Brother Abu Saafir
      Assalam-o-Alaikum. I just wanted to share this news link with you too. Some of your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters on this forum have some opinions which sound similar to the people in the small Indonesian town. Instead of peacefully living together and accepting one another they decided to confront by thinking that its against their religion. I hope you will try to spread message of peace and tolerance in your whole community. Please read the link

      http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/no-shame-for-religious-killings-in-indonesian-town/458163

    • quantum

       @5a06e500692ddf9b8d0110cbc5759b60:disqus

      Truly disappointed in your answer. I am Shia Muslim and you cannot tell me that what I follow is wrong in a subtle manner. It is outright disrespectful. The only so called muslim I find them to be out of Islamic fold are salafis who have made the two holy places of Islam unholy because of their fanatic ideology. They represent the most virulent strain of Islam.

      I have great admiration for Dr. Abdus Salam, who won the noble prize in Physics (1979, who himself was a Ahmedi. Only few countries in the Islamic work consider Ahmedi to be non-muslim (infidel) not everybody.

      To me a person is a Muslim who believes in the concept of “tawheed”

  • Bilal Rana

    Great article. Gotta love the Ahmadi Muslims. We have them here in Houston, too. I’ve also lived in Dallas, Detroit, and Baltimore, and there were in those towns too. We like attend their mosques because their clean and show love to my kids. Their people are educated, yet simple. Serious, yet jovial.

  • Sharjeel

    First of all thank you guys for fixing up a mobile version of this site :-) I LOL’d at BAAP Mobile Version. (Baap in Urdu roughly translates into ‘daddy-o’)

    So on to the topic at hand. Great post guys as always. IMHO Ahmadi’s in Pakistan got the short end of the stick having been officially labelled non-muslim. Given the severity of the theological differences however, and by the Pakistani government’s yardstick, it should’ve been Ismailis (Aga Khani’s) the first in line to receive that label. Fortunately though for Ismailis, they have invested so, so much money in Pakistan that the Pakistani government just couldn’t have the heart to label them as such. Ahmadis on the other hand have been, lets just say, not quite up to par. And that really my fellow TMITD readers, like it or not, believe it or not, accept it or not, is all what it boils down to: $Money$. Ahmadi people i do not agree with your views but i do feel for you.

    In other news a few (quite a few) opportunists are actually using this state of affairs to embellish their own fortunes. Pakistani people, mostly sunni and a few others from a tutti frutti range of sects and faiths, who otherwise would consider themselves condemned to basement level fifteen of Hell for even having shared a chocolate chip cookie with an Ahmadi, are actually pretending to be Ahmadi so they can show up here at Pearson International Airport and seek political asylum i.e. i’m Ahmadi i’m being persecuted in Pakistan, help!

    Aman and Bassam, you guys are an inspiration. Please keep that odometer and that keyboard clickin’ !

  • http://twitter.com/salawm Salaam B

    AA Aman and Bassam! Ramadan mubarak to you both and I hope you are enjoying your journey.  Jazzakallah for visiting my brothers and sisters at the St Louis Mosque.  When you’re back in NY, come through to the Amityville mosque on Long Island, inshallah.  

    Also, Aman, I used to post on your Facebook but I don’t have a FB anymore.  I’ll follow you on Twitter.

  • Rayan

    I disagree with Ahmadis on many topics, but I will say that Ahmadis and Ismailis are the best organized and most dynamic Muslim communities in the world.  They help each other more than anybody else, they build the nicest mosques with the most ambitious mandate, and they maintain the best relationships with the external community.  Their buildings become landmarks, their people become powerful, and they are very charitable. 

    Even if you do disagree with them as I do, there is so much to learn from them.  One can only dream that there was even one Sunni community in North America that operates at even half the effectiveness of a Ahmadi or Ismaili community.

    • Sharjeel

      +1

      • HSIDDIQUI

        For all my years that I have spend with people of the Ismaili community, I always find it fascinating when people say, oh look at Ismailies and how organized they are. I guess the same goes for Qadiyani’s but the realty is that they are no different than the Jew’s who are also very well organized and the primary reason behind is this is not because they have different sets of rules or do something out of the ordinary. Rather they have simply implemented the very rules that Islam has laid down for us as a community. But controlling a community of 1000 is much more doable and easier than organizing 100,000 people. A simple example of this the Chicago, where I live, we have 350,000 plus Muslims and over 50 different Mosque in just the City its self. Compare that to less than 5,000 Ismaili’s living in Chicago with 2 Jamat Khana (Mosque for Ismaili’s). Point being, it is much easier to organize when you have a relatively small community with most followers being from the same ethnic background ( and this is very true for Ismaili’sm, Qadiani’s and even Jews). On the other hand, we would have some Somali brothers, some Palestinian, some Khaliji, some Indonesian, some Indian/ Pakistani and the list goes on.

        • Aqeel

          Aslamoalikum

          So by your own admission what you are saying really is that Allah and the Holy Prophet (saaw) didn’t know that Islam would actually grow this big. Therefore your excuse for the whole of the Muslim Ummah is that they are just too many to handle? Allah and the Holy Prophet (saaw) left Islam as a head less Chicken. Surely you can see that numbers are irrelevant and that true guidance from Allah creates the love in people’s hearts to unite and put their differences to one side.
           
          Kind regards
          Aqeel 

    • http://www.daneshzaki.com/ Danesh

      Very nicely articulated

    • Umer

      Excellently put! Thank you for your honest answer :P

    • Umer

      That was meant to be a smiley face :)  

    • Muslim

      Well since they are low in numbers and thats the only reason they are organized. Look at the jews they are more orginized than these two even they are little mor ein numbers while Chrisitans Muslims and Hindus are not that organized since they are not in that low in numbers. So managing a cult is not that difficult even drug cartels in Colombia and Mexico are more orginized and well established then them.

      • Aqeel

        So by your own admission what you are saying really is that Allah and the Holy Prophet (saaw) didn’t know that Islam would actually grow this big. Therefore your excuse for the whole of the Muslim Ummah is that they are just too many to handle? Allah and the Holy Prophet (saaw) left Islam as a head less Chicken. Surely you can see that numbers are irrelevant and that true guidance from Allah creates the love in people’s hearts to unite and put their differences to one side.
         
        Kind regards
        Aqeel 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

    The Ahmadis are not Muslims.  It is a crucial part of Islam to accept Muhammed (saw) as the last prophet. I think this is starting to get ridiculous, how can you say the Ahmedis are Muslim when they’ve elevated what you know as a Muslim to be a fraudulent fake prophet.  If someone were to come out tomorrow and say hey I’m the next prophet of Islam, would you call that person a Muslim? No you wouldnt, its just as ludicrous to follow a guy from 18th century India as a prophet as it would be to follow one from 21 century America.  Last yearI really enjoyed your blog , because it started off just dealing with different mosques with different backgrounds.  However this year I feel like its chosen to focus on the more controversial and unorthodox of Muslims in America.  I dont feel the coverage is at all reflective of what 99% of Muslims are like in America.  I can imagine most people reading this in the Muslim world thinking of Muslims in the US as extremely radical and disconnected from the religion. 

    • bunbaasi

      According to your belief ‘Christian’s’ prophet has to come yet to serve Islam and to kill swine and break the cross etc?? Will you clarify that also?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        I assume your point is that this would make Muhammed (saw) not the last prophet?  Yes Jesus is supposed to return, however Jesus came before Muhammed he will just be returning so Muhammed is indeed the last prophet.

        • R_s786

          Y at all he would come ?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            By then the world will have been pretty much completely corrupted, and many will have fallen under the trap of the anti-christ.  So he comes to set the record straight and clean the world.

          • Wonder

            Y ” prophet Jesus” afterall only. ?
            Is religion not already complete through Quran Hadith and Prophet Muhammmad. ? If a Prophet of another religion is needed to correct Muslims and Islam how u call Islam as perfect religion and complete.? The religion of Islam is not even sufficient to purify it’s own people rather need to borrow old Prophets’ helps of other religions …

          • R_s786

            My last sentence Is not something I believe In , rather a logical consequence of what u suggested

          • Muslimsforpeace1

            The belief that Prophet Jesus would be the only cure to save world from all ills appears to favor religion of Christianity rather than Islam. And Quran says he was Prophet to israelites only ( not to whole world of all religions )

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            Actually theres a number of reasons why its Jesus, first of all Jesus is the only prophet who hasnt died.  More importantly it is suggested at this time that the number of true Muslims have dwindled and the world is in chaos.  The other reason is it states that after Jesus defeats the anti-christ he will break the cross.  Now this seems like both literal and figurative, because it suggests that he will essentially end christianity, and that would bring the believers of it on the right track. Perhaps that is why it is Jesus and not someone else, because the largest religion is after all Christanity and Jesus’s word would be much more powerful to his believers.  Where as the Muslim already knows Jesus will return, so does not need Muhammed (saw) to return.

          • http://twitter.com/salawm Salaam B

            When the Prophet (sa) experienced the Miraj, he witnessed visions of many of the past prophets who have died while he progressed to each level of Heaven.  Moses, Abraham, Aaron (peace be upon them all) have all died.  Jesus (as) was also seen.  Why would Jesus be alive whereas the others were not alive?  

            Also, earlier you said that because Jesus came before Muhammad (sa), then his coming after would not make him the last prophet, it would still make Prophet Muhammad (sa) the last prophet. Here’s a scenario: you leave a building, then John leaves a building, but then you go back inside to get something and leave again.  Who was the last to leave the building?  With your logic, John was the last to leave the building.  But, everybody can agree that you were the last to leave the building, as you were last in time.  Just the same, it is not intelligent to say that Jesus (as) is not the last prophet if Jesus has a second coming, because he will be last in time.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            Because Jesus never died, he was never crucified, his body was never found.  All the other prophets died and are buried.  Secondly, this is not rocket science, if Jesus is already a prophet and came before Muhammmed guess what that means Muhammed is the last prophet.  Just because he comes back doesnt make him a brand new Prophet.  The Ahamdis try to twist this to make their illegitimate bastard of a prophet legitimate.  You complained earlier you wanted facts.  Why dont you go read about their prophet
            “Many orthodox Muslims feel that Ghulam Ahmad was aided in his mission by the British government, whose stated policy of “divide and rule” was expressed in their approval of Ahmad’s introducing a dissident faction within Islam.[77] Ghulam Ahmad is criticised by the orthodox Muslims for his support for the British Government
            in India and maintain that he and his associates went on publishing in
            favor of British control and even tried to convince Muslims in other
            Muslim countries that a British government would be in their favor. It
            is alleged that he had collaborated with the British against Muslims.[78] They give reference to one of his books in which he said:

            […] The service that has been rendered on my part, in favour of the
            English government is that I have published fifty thousand books,
            magazines and posters and distributed them in this and other Islamic
            countries […] It is as a result of my endeavors that thousands of people
            have given up thoughts of Jihad which had been propounded by ill-witted
            mullahs and embedded in the minds of the people. I can rightly feel
            proud of this that no other Muslim in British India can equal me in this
            respect […]“  So while people preach unity and respect this fraudster’s clear motives were division.

          • http://www.amanali.net Aman Ali

            Aman Ali
            330.221.9200
            aman@amanali.net

            —– Reply message —–

          • Abuladd

            Dear Brother Aman Ali,  Assalamo Alaikum and Eid Mubarak!

            You visited our Mosque, Alhamdulillah, on the basis of your research which showed that Jamaat Ahmadiyya has had a profound historical impact in America.  Thus, as a Scholar, a Seeker, you did what any serious Researcher would do and by the Grace of God, you visited Bait ul Hafeez in St Louis.  You prayed with us, you ate our food and you enjoyed our company and you obviously liked the “vibes” that our brothers and sisters gave off.

            Now…..as a consequence of your scholarly pursuit and your efforts to seek Truth and Knowledge you face the abuse and wrath of the so called ” real Muslims”?!

            Rest assured, that Allah, the Most Gracious Guide and Benefactor, never permits the efforts of any sincere one to be wasted and it is our collective prayer that He especially guide and bless you.

            As our Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said, ‘knowledge is the lost treasure of a believer’.

            I take note that you have a supportive and pious father, may Allah bless him, and I would humbly suggest to you that you undertake one more journey, perhaps on your own, or in the company of your father, to visit Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, Khalifatul Masih V (may Allah protect him and strenghten his hand).  He is the epitome of what we collectively stand for and meeting him would perhaps clear up any questions that you might have. 

            I humbly suggest you contact our New York branch and ask for our Brother Ali Murtaza and he will assist you in making the necessary arrangement to meet the Khalifa.

            May Allah be your Guide and Supporter.

            Sincerely,

            your brother in Islam,

            Abu Bakr Ladd

          • quantum

            Hi Aman,

            I really appreciate your good work about spreading the positive image of Islam. Rather than having an understanding among different sects of Islam, sadly this blog has become a Ahmedi bashing blog. Could you please moderate this thread. If people have nothing positive to say, please stop spewing hatred.

            As a Muslim after a great introspection, I have come to this conclusion:

            Islam may be the world’s best religion but it has the worst follower.

            We Muslims exhibit intolerance and this blog again provides a prime example of that. Now I know why there is so much Islamo phobia in good old USA.

            I am shia muslim.Salafis think that we are kaafir too !!!!

            Sincerely,

            Mehdi

        • bunbaasi

          There must be some timeline, some signs of his arrival? Do I have to see with my eyes while he will be descended or it’s okay to believe if someone says he has arrived? Will you elaborate it please???

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            There are many signs but one major one is the appearance of the anti-christ.  Another big one is the sun will rise from the west instead of the East,

          • Peace

            And all will see the sign n believe it. ? Never happened in history of religions before ?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            Lol well it would be hard not to believe it, for one thing its scientifically impossible for the sun to rise from the west.  Also the anti-christ will have powers and there are descriptions of him.  And then Jesus will defeat him.  At which point Jesus will set the record straight. 

    • Gator Gal

      To you it might seem different, but to others it is THEIR beliefs. Just because they are not SUNNI doesn’t mean they are not muslims. Shia, Sufis, Ahmadis, Ismailis are all muslims, they just don’t get enough attention because they are minorities. I am glad this blog is covering them because they need exposure to people like you who think you are God’s chosen. AstaghfirAllah. Allah (swt) said there are 73 sects on earth and only 1 is correct, none of us know which one that is, so leave it up to HIM.

      From one Sunni to another. 

      • Abuladd

        Gator Gal, Peace be upon you.  I appreciate your sentiment and open mindedness.  However, your comment and many like it raise a fundamental question.  What does SUNNI mean?

        I understand that one is a Suni when one follows the Sunnat or the Way of the Prophet.  Is that correct?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

          Sunni is used to describe the largest sect of Islam.  Obviously though within the Sunnis there are different schools of thought though. 

          • Elyas

            My dear brother @buriedinlit…I wrote a reply to this article earlier and I basically stated the same point of view as you have. These two travellers decided to censor me because I told them to quit making Fitna with our religion. They banned from leaving any comments anymore. Im now using a different email. God help these guys because they are committing a huge sin by promoting these cult members.
            @yahoo-6AGGKKCK6NP2VJEOXCBQTEZL7M:disqus 
            Plus, I dont know if you are aware of this or not but they soon will be visiting a homosexual Imam. Subhanalah. And now they expect us to view them as proper Muslims themselves. What a corrupted dudes they are.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            I agree brother, I think its one big shame.  Last year I enjoyed this site alot, I thought it was a good way to learn about other Muslim communities and reach each other.  This year is gone Hollywood with a focus of controversy. Its a sad waste to see this project corrupted so quickly.  Whats even worse is it paints the wrong picture of what our community is like to non-Muslims interested in Islam.  I saw you were censored I wanted a voice of reason.  Some in here will paint us as Wahabist or extreme conservatives.  But frankly thats not true I consider myself a moderate and am a very easy going person, however this is simple heresy its not being liberal.  I feel these travelers are completely misguided and doing harm to their religion.

          • Geeboth

            You keep bringing up the ‘ homosexual ‘ word in your post a lot even when the topic isn’t (day 2 blog  8/3/11 ).
            Studies have shown it’s a trait of repressed homosexuals, but I’m sure you are just a pious prick.

          • Elyas

            Believe what you want to believe..I have criticised many wrong things they have done and are doing. These guys are so different from last year. I dont know what corrupted them. I keep mentioning homosexuality because I learned in their video that they intend to go to a “homosexual imam” in the next coming days. So im letting the Ummah know that these guys are up to no good.

          • Moose

            You uber pious fellas (who are clearly better than everyone) are passing a lot of judgment around here. 
            I thought that was supposed to be left to the Almighty, but what the hell, its Ramadan! No better month to comment on everyone else’s shortcomings!

          • Saímah

            How darned judgemental you are to judge them as being corrupted! You have no idea what is in their hearts! Check yourself, brother, before you wreck yourself.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        Theres a difference between whats “different” and whats just plain heresy.  Yes there are 73 sects and I’m fine with the vast majority of them, because they maintain the essential beliefs of Islam.  Thats why in Pakistan the Ahmadis unlike the other sects are not recognized as Muslim.  Secondly its not just a matter of “THEIR beliefs”  The fact is this cult has stolen the Islamic religion and soiled it by holding out a fraud scam artist next  to the Prophet (saw) .  I am by no means a sunni who thinks sunnis are above all, I have no problems whatsoever with shias and other sects.  But lets be clear this 100% pure heresy and the last thing the Muslim community should be doing is giving this cult “exposure.”  You’re right only God knows which sect is correct, but as long as the sects follow the main principles and dont elevate some scam artitst they should be fine isa.  Some argue that oh they’re so organized and togetther thats why we should observe them.  That however is not true they Ahamaddis broke up almost instantly in two sects.  Furthermore I can find 1000 other cults that are more organized, that doesnt mean I should cover them. 

        • Yasmeen

          I totally agree with you!  Unfortunately, it seems that Muslims these days are too interested in being politically correct that they don’t realize that they themselves should speak up against those things that are against Islam.  They have the “lets all love and accept one another even if it’s against our religion” mentality.  It’s a shame!

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            your definitely right, fortunately this sickness hasnt spread to the Muslim world, its only a few overly liberal out of touch Westerners who are trying to completely change the religion to suit their vulgar life style.  If it was up to them the mosque would be presiding over gay weddings.  The Ahmadis try to paint this picture that the differences between us are minor and its basically the same.  At the end of the day their religion is shaped by a complete fraud. 

          • Muslimsforpeace1

            No we don’t say our difference is small with rest of Muslims. Because we have recognized the God Appointed reformer and other Muslims have not , and it’s not a small difference !

            It’s so interesting that all 72 sects have no problem with any other sect but one ( Ahmadis ) and Holy Prophet said 72 sects would be wrong ( not that 72 sects would be right ) and he said only one would be right ( to whom all 72 together would reject)
            Just think about it with open mind

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            Lol if you are going to quote the Prophet(saw) at least finish the quote.  When asked who the safe ones will be, the Prophet (peace be upon him) replied “They are those who will be like me and my companions.”  The Prophet and his companions never spoke of any future prophets other then the return of Jesus.  They did however warn of fraudsters and splits, and frankly some random guy from India in the 1800s seems to fit that perfectly.  Lets say some random American guy started saying he was the new Muslim prophet, and he found some ignorant people to follow him and his message.  Would you regard those people as Muslims as well?  Perhaps you would, but I most certainly would not.  The reason why the Ahmadis get such harsh treatment in the Muslim community as opposed to other faiths, is because we feel you’ve stolen our faith and defiled it.  That being said I never advocate violence against anyone, the way I’ve dealt with Ahmadis is to not deal with them.  If they say Salam I’ll return the greeting and be on my way.  But this idea of embracing them as brothers is ridiculous to me.  Frankly I feel the Muslim community has more in common with the Jews then with the Ahmadis, because at least the Jews follow a legitimate Prophet in Moses, unlike the illegitimate ones the Ahmadis follow. 

          • http://twitter.com/salawm Salaam B

            Work on your presentation skills.  You say “random guy from India in the 1800s”.  But, if you change some of those words, a person could easily say “random guy from a desert in the 500s”.  Would you like that?  (rhetorical question).
            Additionally, I’ve read your comments and they are all conclusory statements, which means that they all form conclusions.  However, there is little to no backing of those conclusions.  Work on backing up your conclusions with hard facts or logic as is the way of sharia (qiyas, a little bit of ijtihad as well maybe). 

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            He’s a random guy from India in the 1800s because unlike the random guy in the desert in the 500′s he doesnt have a billion plus followers today, his faith doesnt have dozens of countries where it is the main religion.  Furthermore he didnt bring a book with him and performed no miracles like the other prophets.  The 1800s was not long ago, in fact he died in the early 1900s so had he done anything miraculous it would be well documented.  What is it that you dont find backed up exactly?  The main point is Islam meaning the Quran and the sunnah state Muhammed is the last Prophet.  The Ahmadiyaa state a fraudster from the 1800s who has a very small following ( more Wiccans and Scientologists) reformed nothing and accomplished nothing is the last prophet.  I’m sorry if my comments don’t meet your high standards, but frankly this is a straight forward topic that the vast majority of the Muslim world agrees on.

          • http://twitter.com/salawm Salaam B

            The vast majority of Mecca, and the Arabian peninsula, believed Muhammad (sa) and his small band of followers to be false as well.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            yes and within a few years the vast majority of Arabia and beyond were believers.  That is the true power of Allah not this fraudster British puppet.

          • Umer

            When Jesus left the Jews, he only had a handfull of people who believed in him. Do you call him a fraudster as well? You say there is a difference between “being different” and plain heresy? So you consider it “being different” when Shia Muslims disregard the first 3 Khalifas and some use extremely harsh language towards them? You consider it “being different” when Ismailis don’t consider it necessary to pray 5 times a day? 

            You act as if the entire Muslim Ummah is united against Ahmadi Muslims, but the reality is Muslims point fingers of kufr amongst themselves over a variety of religious reasions. The only reason Ahmadis are put in the spotlight is because the Pakistani govt illegalized their declaration of Islam. 

            Live and Let Live (physically, mentally, Islamically)

          • Brother

            “They have the “lets all love and accept one another even if it’s against our religion” mentality. ”

            I LOVE that above statement!

          • TolerancePeace

            Dear Brothr
            Assalam-o-Alaikum. Your sentiments sound similar to the people in the small Indonesian town. Instead of peacefully living together and accepting one another they decided to confront by thinking that its against their religion. Please read the link

            http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/no-shame-for-religious-killings-in-indonesian-town/458163

          • Moose

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the days of the Prophet (saw), wasn’t that (love and acceptance) the EXACT mentality he directed his followers to have towards Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

            If its wrong to accept and love others regardless of race or religion, then I don’t want to be right….

          • TolerancePeace

            Dear Ms. Yasmeen Assalam-o-Alaikum. As I wrote before that your sentiments sound similar to the people in the small Indonesian town. Instead of peacefully living together and accepting one another they decided to confront by thinking that its against Islam. Please read the linkhttp://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/no-shame-for-religious-killings-in-indonesian-town/458163

          • TolerancePeace

            Dear Ms. Yasmeen sorry the news link did not come through in my last post, here is the link again 
            http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/no-shame-for-religious-killings-in-indonesian-town/458163

      • Sum

        salaam, diversity is inevitable and also Beautiful in Islam, and I think it’s important to respect that diversity. However, there are fundamentals in Islam which would deem one to be out of the fold if not adhered to. 
        One God, Muhammad last prophet. Hence we have many Shi’i's of the Ithna Ashari and Zaydi sects who are totally our Muslim brothers because they follow the same, fundamental creed. But other random shi’i groups that do not accept Muhammad as the last prophet, and any other group who doesn’t , like the Ahmadis, are out of the fold. It doesn’t mean we should not treat them with dignity and respect, but we could not pray janazah on them or have our children marry them, because they are breaking a fundamental aspect of the shahadah.  

    • Abuladd

      Buried….If I say that I love my mother, can you deny that?

      May Allah be your Guide and have Mercy upon you.

      But you are right, some guy can’t just jump up and say , hey I’m a Prophet. 

    • Szachaudrygmail Com

      Your bigotry and Hatred are appallingly visible in your posts. I will just make two short points to clarify your false notions and misconceptions, which you are very eager to promote. All Muslims are awaiting the Promised Mahdi(as) it is a very important tenet of Islam. The very name Mahdi means the guided one–and he will DEFINITELY be guided by ALLAH(swt) via true visions and revelations to carry out his IMMENSE mission (i.e in brief- to unite the WHOLE world under the banner of Islam).  Now that makes him a Prophet whatever else you may want to call him will clearly be deceitful. 

      Secondly in any case according to the strict injunctions of Rasoolalah(sw) anyone reciting the Kalima, praying like Us facing the Quiblah and eating of our (Halal) foods is a Muslim and Neither the Government of any
      country or any number of Molvis  have the authority to declare any such person a non Muslim. So Neither the kuran nor the strict Orders of Rasoolallah(sw) give you the authority to declare any such person non Muslim. Please STOP this BLASPHEMY.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        A mahdi is not a prophet, second of all the mahdi’s arrival is documented and there is a goal in mind.  Your false prophet achieved nothing of noteable value.  Except a small ignorant group that is despised through out the Muslim world.  A real Muslim has enough common sense to know what a Muslim is and is not.  This is not an argument of interpretation.  This is a different set of beliefs altogether.  As a Muslim we all know Muhammed (saw) is the final prophet.  Once you elevated a fraudster as a prophet you are no longer Muslim.  Frankly I have no doubt in my mind that your great prophet was not only money hungry, but he was an agent of those who seek to hurt Islam by sowing divisions.  Fortunately he failed because only a very small number of people are ignorant enough to follow him.  By the way the numbers you give about your followers are extremely misleading each site claims a different number, and theyre all way too high.  All I will say is I hope that the Ahmadis wake up one day and drop this fraudster prophet and embrace true Islam much like the Nation of Islam ended up doing.  If they were to that I would be the first one in line to greet them as my brothers and sisters.

        • Szachaudrygmail Com

          I wont respond to your clear tactics of a loser who has no valid points- of trying to denigrate hzt. Ahmad(as) By making false accusations against him. You have failed to address the core issue I have mentioned..your pathetic attempts to divert the topic by raising false allegations just show you know that you are lying. so instead of diverting the topic stick to the point.-

          The Mahdi(AS)  will be
          a prophet.  As I explained in the earlier
          post to you the very name Mahdi means the GUIDED one. He will definitely be
          guided and helped by Allah(swt) in his Mission, which by the way is the perhaps
          the greatest mission ever given to anybody by Allah, including perhaps any
          prophet before. Simply Put ***To unite and bring the whole world under the
          banner of ISLAM**** He will be informed by via REVELATION of course by
          ALLAH(swt) that HE IS THE Chosen MAHDI and then he will be guided and helped by
          ALLAH(swt) through visions and REVELATIONS to undertake and carry out his
          tremendous mission. That makes him a prophet what ever you may call him to
          deceive your self and others…You will be the Deciever, not Us. A measure of The success of hzt. Ahmads(as)  mission can be gauged from the fact mentioned in the above blog…that  QUOTE;- Many people might not know this, but the Ahmadis are credited with being one of the first groups of people that spread Islam throughout the United States on a large scale in the 1920s.;UNQUOTE.

          In fact the Ahmadi Muslims are THE first group of Muslims who actually DID SYSTEMATIC Dawah and laid the very foundation of Islam in America…and this is only one example..this has happened  all over the world for example the first Mosques in many cities of Europe and N. America were established and built by Ahmadis;- And this is only one small example there are too many tremendous stories of amazing success all over the world especially in Africa. By the way what were you guys doing all along for the past 500 or so years can you explain your achievements in any field for the past 500 years..what have you specifically done for Islam or Humanity in general….anything!!! letrs here from your side  for a change..

    • SofiaD

      The thing is you need to do a little more research before you start talking. We believe that the Prophet Muhammed (saw) IS the LAST LAW BEARING PROPHET. You see we differentiate between a law bearing prophet such as Muhammed (saw), Jesus, Abraham, to just a prophet. The Promised Messiah therefore does not negate the fact that Mohammed (saw) was the seal of the Prophets but rather he was the Messiah who came as scheduled to come and REFORM Muslims since everyone was straying from the true Islam. THe Promised Messiah didn’t bring a new religion, he came to clean it up. As for your 99% stat, that has to be the funniest thing ever since half of the 98% percent are only Muslim in name and nothing only. The sunni Muslims at my school drink and party and have relationships just like Christians or other faiths. And Ahmadiyyat is the farthest thing from being radical…you only have to look to Pakistan and it’s sunni muslims to know this.

      thanks :]

      • Micheletariq75

        your comment is just as disturbing as the previous, to say that 98% of Muslims are Muslim in name only is defamatory and ridiculous. While there are certainly Muslims of every sect who party there are also many who lead respectable lives.

        • Muslimsforpeace1

          Problem is Prophet Muhammad has himself prophesied that in latter days Muslims will be muslim in name only. And their hearts will be empty of faith in reality. These are his words. So we have to accept it no matter we dislike

          But on individual basis , ofcourse we don’t have right to pinpoint others

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        First of all a true Muslim doesnt make this law bearing distinction its only the Ahamdis who are trying to be slick who do.  As for the 99% argument if you read carefully, I never said 99% of Muslims were practicing or good, I said that these posts dont reflect how 99% of Muslims in America act or behave and that is true.  How many American Muslims do you know who are willing to go to an Ahmadi mosque, I bet you 99% wont.  As for your 98% number thats completely ridiculous I dont know what hell hole your living in but I can assure you that  your numbers are greatly skewed, perhaps your beloved Ahmadis have blinded you to the good in the Muslim community.  Frankly I believe the pakis got it right by not allowing the Ahmaddis to cal themselves Muslim.  Believe me the rest of the Muslim world would do the same, but theres barely any of you around.  I hope Allah guides you to the true Islam and away from fraudster prophets.

        • Chicken-salad

          YOU ARE REALLY BURIED IN INSENSITIVITY AND PROFANITY..U need to get your brain tested man…You seem to be that sort of a muslim who comes to USA in search of gori ‘bachian” amd gets laid in the freshman year..stop hating and go do something useful..FAG!

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            First of all you complain of profanity yet you end your post with “Fag” lol  Secondly you ignorantly make many assumptions about me that are not accurate because you want me to fit in your mold.  First of all I did not “come” to the USA I was born and raised here.  Secondly you assume I speak what I presume to be Urdu but I am not of South Asian origin.  As for the getting laid part, its not worth commenting about.  I am quite happy with my brain and I’m sure it has gotten me farther in life then yours has.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        First of all a true Muslim doesnt make this law bearing distinction its only the Ahamdis who are trying to be slick who do.  As for the 99% argument if you read carefully, I never said 99% of Muslims were practicing or good, I said that these posts dont reflect how 99% of Muslims in America act or behave and that is true.  How many American Muslims do you know who are willing to go to an Ahmadi mosque, I bet you 99% wont.  As for your 98% number thats completely ridiculous I dont know what hell hole your living in but I can assure you that  your numbers are greatly skewed, perhaps your beloved Ahmadis have blinded you to the good in the Muslim community.  Frankly I believe the pakis got it right by not allowing the Ahmaddis to cal themselves Muslim.  Believe me the rest of the Muslim world would do the same, but theres barely any of you around.  I hope Allah guides you to the true Islam and away from fraudster prophets.

    • Brother

      The liberal Muslims are really pushing it this time with this whole accept Ahmadiyya shtick.

    • TolerancePeace

      Dear Mr. Buriedinlit. Please see my reply to Mr. Hamdan above. Your concern and objection seem to be the same. I tried copying the reply here but its not going through.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        The issue of Prophethood is not my only problem with Mirza Gullam Ahmed although it is a great issue.  But just to deal with prophethood, essentially the arguments of Ahmadya is that the rest of Muslims are wrong, because the Mahdi and Jesus are prophets and they come later.  There is disagreement over the status of the Mahdi as a prophet, the majority of Muslims dont view him as such because he brings no new faith or message, he comes as a leader.  Everytime a prophet came down they brought a new message for example the religous dietary restrictions given to the jews were different of that given to the Muslims.  As for the coming of Jesus, Jesus never died, and he already came making him not the last.  Secondly when Jesus comes he brings no new religion he will simply show Islam to be the right one the rest of the world.  But I think before you can even debate Prophethood it is essential to simply look at the actions and opinions of the man.  In this case Mirza Gullam Ahmed was a proponent of the savage British Occupation of India.  One person in here tried to justify that because the British gave freedom of religion, the British didnt give India even the freedom to live let alone practice religion.  Many Muslims were slaughtered by them during their colonial aggression.  I think the Ahmadiyas need to seriously come to terms with what their prophet supported instead of deflecting the issue.  I dont see how I can respect anyone who betrays his own people to aid a foreign invader.  Personally many, myself included his whole mission was to start this religion to disunite the Muslim community and make it easier for the British to rule and oppress us. 

        • TolerancePeace

          Dear Mr. Buriedinlit.You major concern was that Ahmadis should not be considered Muslims because they believe in an Ummati Nabi and when you were provided references from Quran and Ahadith and from writings of some prominent religious scholars of the past that an Ummati Nabi (a non-law bearing prophet) can come, you have now started another topic without giving your thoughts about these references.As about the struggle for Pakistan, history speaks for itself. It was an Ahmadi who presented the case for the Muslims in the boundary commission and he fought valiantly whereby his own opponent complimented him. Sir Muhammad Zafarullah Khan, a leading member of the Ahmediyya community, presented the Muslim League case before the Punjab Boundary Commission with sterling competence. The counsel for the Congress Party, Mr Setalvad, could not restrain himself from publicly paying compliments to Zafarullah during the proceedings. In 1947, the Ahmadis were still included in government statistics among Muslims, and that alone had inflated the Muslim percentage of the Gurdaspur district to a bare majority of 51 percent.Then Ahmadis fought in Kashmir under the Al-Furqan Batallion. The Jamaat-e-Ahmedia first sent a forty-men group under Mirza Mubarik Ahmad, which was posted at Merajkay, Sialkot; two of them were killed. Later, in June 1948, they sent a battalion, named “Furqan Battalion” which received its training at village Sohan near Sara-i-Alamgir. It was led first by Col. Muhammad Hayat Kaisrani and then by Col. Mubarik Ahmad. It was posted to Baghsar, Bhimber, on 10th July 1948 to see active duty. Five of its men were killed in action. It was disbanded on 15th June, 1950. Ch Zafrullah Khan, an Ahmadi Muslim, fought for Pakistan and other Muslim countries all his life at all platforms, including representing Pakistan on boundary commission where he fought Pakistan’s case with 100% honesty and integrity.So please stop spreading lies and propaganda against Ahmadi Muslims, but as I said before, I do not blame you for your hatred, this is the case with many of our non-ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters who have like you only read the twisted out of context writings from the anti-ahmadiyya websites or have only heard about Ahmadiyya beliefs from their current day religious clerics. This is similar to what many anti-Islam people do. As you know on their anti-Islam websites they quote from Quran, out of context, to prove that Islam teaches violence and which we know is absolutely wrong and misleading. But unfortunately you are doing the same thing against your fellow Ahmadi Muslim brothers.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            Your facts are misleading brother, for one you seem to take great pride in the fact that an Ahmadiy helped in the case for the border dispute.  Now the question is how an Ahmadiy got such a high position when your numbers are extremely small?  The reason he got it is because of the extremely close position of your Prophet with the British.  Secondly the partition of India was a goal of the British that was helped by the Ahamadiya community.  Now I am not saying I was against the formation of Pakistan, however if you read the history of the Partition thanks to the British it was an extremely bloody and ruthless partition due to the hate they sowed in the people.   These boundary disputes were further pushed by the British to create ethnic tension and it lead to genoicide attempts in many communities in order to help secure a region.  Furthermore you seem proud that the Ahmadiya helped to secure one region, frankly I dont think that information is accurate I think it was merely the British throwing their servant a bone.  You made this long argument about things some Ahmadiya did, but all these facts you pointed out like the Kashmir jihadists and border arguments none of these were against the British.  Why dont you adress the main fact which is your prophet was a proponent of the British colonization of India and wrote and spoke in favor of it many times.  Furthermore he tried to convince other Muslim nations to embrace British rule.  Please address this specific issue.

          • TolerancePeace

            Dear Mr. Buriedinlit
             
            Assalam-o-Alaikum. Again I will repeat that initially your main concern was that Ahmadis are not Muslims because they believe in an Ummati Nabi and when you were provided with the references about that you have started another issue which has nothing to do with being a Muslim or not. But still to remove your doubts and concerns about this issue too, please watch the below videos where Ahmadi scholars are responding to these false and baseless allegations regarding being British agent or something. I hope you will listen to these with an open mind and assuming you are from Pakistan I have included an Urdu link too.
             
            Here is the Urdu link from the program Rahe Huda
             
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wUEcGqy8Y
            But in case you do not understand Urdu, here is the English video link from program Faith Matters 
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR-EwLE5SEE
            Again I must say that I do not blame you for your hatred, this is the case with many of our non-ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters who have like you only read the twisted out of context writings from the anti-ahmadiyya websites or have only heard about Ahmadiyya beliefs from their current day religious clerics. This is similar to what many anti-Islam people do. As you know on their anti-Islam websites they quote from Quran, out of context, to prove that Islam teaches violence and which we know is absolutely wrong and misleading. But unfortunately you are doing the same thing against Ahmadi Muslims. 

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            Again I will repeat, I feel the Ahmadyia are not Muslims because they follow a false prophet.  Philosophical and religous reasons aside, I do not believe any prophet could side with a foreign invader of his people.  There is ample evidence your Prophet supported the evil British colonization of India.  As far as I am concerned you can not consider someone to be a good person if they support British colonization let alone be a prophet.  Now please stop posting links and talking about Prophethood, and address the issue of your prophet’s views on the British colonialism of India.  This issue is imperative evidence of his character.  You could sit here and argue me that it is possible that there is a another Prophet and even if you miraculously won that argument I would still consider you a Kaffir because I would not acknowledge your prophet to be a prophet, because of this damning evidence against his character.  So I ask you one last time brother, please comment only on your Prophets views on British colonialism, if you are going to ignore this important issue dont bother responding.

          • TolerancePeace

            Dear Mr. Buriedinlit
            The arguments are in response to both the issues you are raising, both issues are related. If you want to consider them weak and keep repeating your false and baseless allegations you have read from out of context quoted texts from the anti-ahmadiyya websites, its your choice. I can only pray for you. 

          • TolerancePeace

            Dear Mr. Buriedinlit As I said I do not blame you for your hatred, this is the case with many of our non-ahmadi Muslim brothers and sisters who have like you only read the twisted out of context writings from the anti-ahmadiyya websites or have only heard about Ahmadiyya beliefs from their current day religious clerics. And about the character of these so called religious clerics I will just quote a couple of Ahadith for you. Majority of our people curse our current day maulanas every day but may be do not know that our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) told us about this situation 1400 years ago. Here are the Ahadith; ”Hadrat ‘Ali narrates that the Holy Prophet (SAW) said: “A time will come in the future when there will be nothing left of Islam except its name. And there will be nothing left of the Holy Qur’an except its words [meaning the Holy Qur’an would not be understood and followed]. The mosques of that age will apparently be full of people, but will be empty of righteousness. Their ulema will be the worst creatures under the heaven. Discord will rise from them and will come right back to them. Reference: (al-Baihaqi as quoted in al-Mishkat Kitab-ul ‘Ilm, chapter 3, p. 38 and Kan- zul ‘Ummal, chapter 6, p. 43) “In my ummah, an era will come when there will be disputes and there will be hostilities. Conflicts will arise. Usually, common people will fight among each other, but the blame should not rest with them. People will turn to their ulema to find out what is going on, and to see why they are the victims of violence and mayhem. When the people go to their ulema in the hope for guidance, they will find the ulema like monkeys and swine, meaning that these are not ulema, but monkeys and swine.” (Kanzul ‘Ummal, vol. 7 p. 190) I know you would say that this time has not come. According to Dr Israr Ahmed, one of Pakistan’s renowned scholars, the state of our present day ulemas proves that we are passing through this worst time (you can find the link of Dr. Israr’s speech on YouTube).

  • Wajid

    Watch the difference between Ahmadies and other sect of Islam
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqbsTZxVyiQ&feature=feedf

  • Abuladd

    Dear Brother Aman Ali, Assalamo Alaikum.  May Allah reward you and your team for your service to Islam and to the world.  If there were more Muslims like you the beautiful name of Islam would not be sullied and defamed across the globe.
    We, who follow the guidance of Allah and the Messenger(s) that he has sent us are doing our best to again restore the name of Islam to its former pristine beauty.  Your report about us was fair and hopefully will enlighten other Muslims to visit with us and see what Khilafat can accomplish for all Muslims.  If they would follow the guidance.

    Abu Bakr Ladd

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6AGGKKCK6NP2VJEOXCBQTEZL7M Shahnaz Latif

    Thank
    you for writing such a good article.  Ahmadiyya
    Muslim Community believes the true teaching of Islam. It is the only Islamic
    organization to believe that the long-awaited messiah has come in the person of
    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) of Qadian, India. Ahmad claimed to be the
    metaphorical second coming of Jesus of Nazareth and the divine guide, whose
    advent was foretold by the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (peace and blessing of
    Allah be upon him). Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that the Holy Prophet
    Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) is the last Law bearing
    prophet of God.  Holy Quran is the last
    revealed book by God. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community believes that God sent
    Ahmad within the fold of Islam, to end religious wars, condemn bloodshed and
    reinstitute morality, justice and peace. Our Motto is, “Love for All Hatred for
    None”.

    Please visit http://www.alislam.org
    to get the true teaching of Islam. 

     

  • Appreciative

    I appreciate the open mindedness of the author and his well intentioned message of diversity and inclusion, particularly during the month of Ramadhan. May Allah inspire all Muslims regardless of affiliation to behave with compassion, justice and love. I too have spent time with Ahmadis and found among them exemplary Muslims, with a great sense of humility, hospitality and kindness. It brings to mind the Hadith… Allah is kind and loves kindness. Clearly with all their advancements they have been the recipients of some of this Divine Love. May we each try harder to do the same. 

  • http://amenaskhan.wordpress.com Amenaskhan

    You guys have almost never commented on food before-the cornbread must’ve been really good! Thanks for reiterating the one-Ummah concept. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UY5V2NFDY6D6UGNXEY3EQSDGNU suhail

    I applaud the writer for expressing his indigenous and unbiased comments about what he noticed. This kind of openness can lead to clear many negative perceptions which the mainstream Muslims have about Ahmadis, as they are bombarded with interpolated interpretations about their beliefs by people having vested ambitions. Go to http://www.alislam.org for true teachings of Islam.
    Suhail Kausar

  • http://profiles.google.com/muslimsforpeace1 Ahmadi Muslim

    May Allah reward you for an honest description of whatever you found in your visit to ahmadiyya mosque. 
    Whatever
    the beliefs of Ahmadis are, the are open and available for reararch for
    anyone at their official website http://www.alislam.org.  I wonder why non
    Ahmadis are so scared of them that they spent hours n hours just making
    a self desired claim that Ahmadis are not Muslims.I  Who made them the
    judge ?
     

    • Fs

      wow Im so impressed how you Ahmedis keep on metioning your website, anyone who doesnt understand islam or is not clear abt would be fooled into looking into the website and thinking you are the ones representing islam. I wish some one else would keep on mentioning a good website like thses people do brilliant brainwashing, infact im impressed ………………….will try and keep on posting a good islamic website like understanding islam …………….actually thats a good one or reccomend Usman Ali khan who is a good scholar……….but ya you guys are organsied!!!

  • Ammar

    Even the angry Wahabists who trash this site are giving it hits…I love it. Keep it coming fellas. 

  • http://twitter.com/Musathik Musadhik Mohamaed

    Assalamualykum !

    First time in ma life i heard about Ahmadiyya mulim Community …
    They have Good relationship with their community and they are trying Promote Islam…
     

    Abdullah bin Amarra relates that the Holy Prophet (SA) said ‘Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sects but my people will be divided into 73 sects, all of them will be in the fire except one.’ The companions asked. ‘Who are they O Messenger of Allah,’ Holy Prophet (pbuh) said. `They are those who will be like me and my companions.’ (Tirmidhi – Kitabul Eeman)

    Allah Knows what is true..

  • Haroon Shakoor

    Islam is a religion that teaches harmony and peace. We live in a society that is quite diverse in terms of nationalities, beliefs and origins. We must learn to tolerate and respect each and every individual as a human being. Having a difference is not an issue instead it is how that difference is addressed. No one has the right to pass any judgements about anyone else. Especially, when Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) did not practise such a thing. If I as an Ahmdai call myself Muslim then I don’t need anyone else to validate it. Nor it gives me any right to call others who are Sunni or Shia or Wahabi or Ismailis anything but what they call themselves. Only if we all adopt such a practise this society will become a peaceful society. Anything other than this will refleect what is happening in Pakistan. Every sect in Pakistan is calling themselves true Muslim and everyone else non-muslim. I hope those people in Pakistan follow the footsteps of some our our Sunni and other guests below. They have the differences but they know how to voice them properly respecting humanity at the same time. For more information about Ahmadiyya beliefs please see http://www.alislam.org.

  • Bobby

    Note for the authors: What’s the Ahmadiyya contribution to history of Muslims in the USA?

    It will be enlightening to know a little about what you guys really meant?

  • http://twitter.com/HamdanAzhar Hamdan Azhar

    Unfortunately, brother Aman’s article overlooks the primary reason why the vast majority of
    Muslims throughout the world consider the Ahmadiyya as being outside the fold
    of Islam. It is their insistence that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, born in Qadian in
    1835, was a prophet (nabi) and messenger (rasul) of Allah. There is unanimous
    consensus among all the Sunni and Shi’i schools of thought that any claimant to
    prophethood after the Prophet Muhammad is a false prophet and that anyone who
    believes in such a prophet is an adherent of a new religion. See, for example, “The
    Creed of Imam al-Tahawi”, translated by Hamza Yusuf, which says unequivocally, “Every
    claim to prophethood after him [Muhammad] is falsehood and deceit.”

     

    What is
    particularly troubling is the implication that this decision to consider
    Ahmadiyyat as a new religion outside the fold of Islam is somehow intolerant or
    morally dubious. The persecution and discrimination faced by Ahmadis is
    absolutely indefensible and must be condemned. Nevertheless, this has no bearing
    on the fact that any religious community must be afforded the freedom to
    determine, without external intervention, the theological bounds of that
    community.

    Simply reciting the shahada is clearly not sufficient for one to be considered
    a Muslim, especially in the case when one holds theological beliefs that are
    contradictory to the shahada. For example, the Nation of Islam, in their early
    days, used to proclaim that Allah descended to the Earth in the person of Master
    Fard Muhammad. The Nation proclaimed this while continuing to recite the
    shahada; nevertheless, this did not prevent the Muslim community from
    considering the Nation outside the bounds of Islam. This was the same
    conclusion reached by Malcolm X. (Thankfully, the vast majority of the members
    of the Nation eventually embraced Islam under the guidance of Imam WD Muhammad.)

     

    A worldview in
    which no faith is permitted to set theological or action-oriented boundary
    conditions to define itself is logically untenable and forebodes poorly for the
    future of religious freedom. Our emphasis on promoting diversity and inclusion
    within the ummah must have certain constraints; otherwise, the entire exercise
    becomes useless. This was the beauty and brilliance of the Amman Message which
    recognized the validity of the four Sunni madhahib in addition to the Ja’fari,
    Zaydi, Ibadhi, and Zaahiri schools of thought. In extending the call for unity
    to members of other Muslim communities, the Message was unequivocal: “[as long
    as they do] not deny any necessarily self-evident tenet of religion.” Faraz
    Rabbani of SunniPath, certainly one of the more progressive scholars of our
    times, concludes, “Anyone who denies anything necessarily known of the religion
    is a non-Muslim, and cannot be considered a Muslim.” [Elsewhere on the site, GF
    Haddad reiterates that this ruling applies to Ahmadis.]

    • NewYorker

      Words of wisdom Hamdan14. Just what I was looking for. 

    • Rayan

      While I agree with everything you said, I think it misses a key point and that is that it is your opinion that they are out of the fold of Islam, just as it is their opinion that you are out of the fold of Islam.

      If you ask a Salafist, all Sufis are out of Islam (even though within Sufis there are dozens of sects).  

      No one I believe is, and if they are no one should be limiting your right to consider what is ‘correct’ but you also do not have a right to call someone a non-Muslim, you simply do not.  If an Ahmadi Muslim is a good person that prays 5 times a day, completes all the pillars of Islam, then can you say with certainty that God will not allow them in paradise? You cannot.  

      It is interesting how rigid some Muslims are in their views.  It makes me curious how many here would fail to recognize Jesus (may peace be upon him) when he returns.  How many would label him a madman? The first Muslims were raised in the ways of the Quraish, and to some degree they had to have been open-minded to even be open to listening to the Prophet’s (SAW) words.  Something to think about.

    • Hawkwala

      Please show me one Hadith (saying of the Holy Prophet (saw)) that says that there will be no prophet after him.
      I have a very simple question - Which prophet has a higher status – a prophet who has not a single follower who can achieve the status of the prophethood or a prophet who has several prophets following his foosteps?

      • Usman

        Lol this is very easy. You want a hadith where the Prophet (pbuh) says that there will be no prophet after him?

        Ready? Here we go. “لا نبي بعدي”, “There is no prophet after me.”

        As for your second simple question, there is a simple answer. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), despite being the final of messengers (in fact, the honour of being the seal to all messages is great in itself), he is also IMAM of all the Messengers. He doesn’t need “other prophets” on his scale. He is a Mercy for ALL the worlds, including the other prophets.

        • Kaleem

          The Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) also said when he led the funeral prayers of his son lbrahim will stated: “had he (Ibrahim) lived, he would have been a true prophet…..” (Ibn- i-Majah, Kitab Al Janaiz)

          On explaining ‘la nabiyye ba’adi’, Hadhrat Aiha (may Allah be pleased with her comments:  “Say He (The Holy Prophet) is ‘Khatamul-Anbiyya’ but do not say that there would be no prophet after him.” (Durre Mansooim)

          Another interesting hadith supports the Ahmadiyya view of Khatam  meaning ‘best’, ‘peak’, ‘gold standard’, ‘cheif’ and so on.  The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) is reported to have said: “When this Caesar will die, there will be no Caesar after him. When this Khusroe will die, there will be no Khusroe after him.“’ 
          (Bukhari-Kitab Al- lman Wal Nuzul)

          Yet another hadith, this time from Tarikh Al-Baghdad  reports the Holy Prophet (pbuh) as saying to Hadhrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him: “I am Khatam ul Anbiya and you O Ali are Khatam ul Awliya.” 

          You will also know that the Holy (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) called the Second Coming of the Messiah ‘Nabiullah’ (Prophet of Allah) not once but four times. 

          The Founder of the Ahmadiyya Community has expounded on the true meaning of KhatamanNabiyyeen time and time again:
           ‘Without doubt, no man or angel can match the  divine attributes vouchsafed to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him).” (Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya)

          There is no wonder or greatness in being the last one to enter the room. Khatam-e-Nabuwwat is the throne of prophethood, not limited to time. 

          He further writes:
           “It is no longer necessary to follow separately each previous prophet and his teachings, since the message brought by Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) encompasses and surpasses all previous teachings. All other paths leading to God are now closed. All verities leading to God are contained in this teaching. There is no other truth after this. All true prior teachings are contained in these teachings. HIS PROPHETHOOD IS THE CULMINATION OF ALL PROPHETS and rightly so. (Al-Wassiyyat)

          He also writes:
          He is the THE BEST OF ALL APROPHETS and the best of all mankind. In his person, all the attributes and blessings of prophethood have reached their perfection. Every drop of heavenly elixir that we taste, we do so through his munificence. Everyone drinking to his fill does so at his spiritual fountain. Every ray of celestial beauty and light that we are blessed with, we receive through him and him alone. My love for the Prophet is deep and abiding. Oh how I wish to fly like a bird towards him with all my heart and longings.” (Siraj- i-Munir)

          The Founder of the Ahmadiyya Community, who claimed to be the fulfilment of the prophecies of Mahdi and Messiah, wrote volumes in adoration of the true greatness of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him), that is awe-inspiring and will give you a better understanding of this concept.

    • Dale Gribble

      Agree in full.

      Yes we should be tolerant and yes we do not know what is in the hearts of others.

      But in the same vein, we cannot call someone who does not believe in the main tenets of Islam a Muslim just as we do not regard Jews and Christians as Muslims.  A Christian believes that Jesus died for his sins = that is a fundamental difference that most if not all schools of Muslim thought would regard to be the sign of a non-muslim yet if that Christian were to say he was a Muslim some in this forum would expect us to validate that belief. No, we do not recognize Ahmaddiya/Qadiani as a sect of Islam because it has a fundamental difference with the core teachings of Islam.

      Further it’s not just one tenet of Ahmaddiya’s that leads them to be labeled non-muslims. It’s also the belief that Jesus died in India after being rescued from the cross. This contradicts the Quran.

      This is from their website word for word “He divested Islam of fanatical beliefs and practices by vigorously
      championing Islam’s true and essential teachings. He also recognized
      the noble teachings of the great religious founders and saints,
      including Zoroaster(as), Abraham(as), Moses(as), Jesus(as), Krishna(as), Buddha(as), Confucius(as), Lao Tzu and Guru Nanak, and explained how such teachings converged into the one true Islam.”

                 These are not minor differences or differences that exist but the core message is followed, these are major differences.

      Remember that Islam has been one religion sent down to the Jews, then when they transgressed to the Christians, and then when they transgressed to the Muslims as the last and final revelation to the last and final prophet. 

      I think our notions of tolerance are skewed.  It does not mean that we agree with what you believe in, it only means that we are tolerant of another faith.  It does not mean that I silence my views.  Just as I believe that a Christian preacher can preach that Jews and Muslims will go to hell for not believing in his religion, I believe that persons of all other faiths can disagree but still be tolerant.

    • Szachaudrygmail Com

      …WHEN THE PREMISE IS WRONG THE WHOLE ARGUMENT BECOMES BASELESS AND WRONG.

      I already posted this elsewhere here on this page but I will post it again here as it is pertinent to the questions raised. All Muslims are awaiting the Promised Imam Al Mahdi(as) it is a very important tenet of Islam. The very name Mahdi means the guided one–and he will DEFINITELY be guided by ALLAH(swt) via true visions and revelations to carry out his IMMENSE mission (i.e in brief- to unite the WHOLE world under the Banner of Islam) which by the way is the perhaps the greatest mission ever given to anybody by Allah, including perhaps any or all the earlier prophets.  Now that makes him a Prophet whatever else you may want to call him will clearly be deceitful. So there is a very firm basis for the claims of the Ahmadi Muslims which is in complete agreement with the teachings of Islam.

      In any case here are the strict Injunctions of Rasoolallah(SW) about declaring anybody as Non Muslim;-Sunan Abu Dawud Book 14, Number 2526:Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
      The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, “There is no god but Allah” and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.

      Sahih Bukhari
      Volume 1, Book 8, Number 386:Narrated Anas bin Malik:Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever prays like us and faces our Quibla and eats our slaughtered animals is a Muslim and is under Allah’s and His Apostle’s protection. So do not betray Allah by betraying those who are in His protection.”

      And there are many more..and the language is very clear and unambiguous;- Quote from the first hadith;-Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, “There is no god but Allah” AND NOT TO EXCOMMUNICATE HIM FROM ISLAM FOR ANY OF HIS ACTION ….Unquote.So there is no basis or authority for declaring Ahmadi Muslims as **outside the pale of Islam*** Without going against the strict orders of the Holy Prophet(sw) himself or even the injunctions of the Kuran.

    • TolerancePeace

      Dear Mr. Hamdan Assalam-o-Alaikum. Your main reason for not considering Ahmadis as Muslims seem to be that we Ahmadi Muslims consider Hazarat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as Ummati Nabi. And as you say that as majority of current day clerics also think that no Ummati Nabi can come it validates your point. I just wanted to share with you some references from Quran and Ahadith which prove that an Ummati Nabi can come. I hope that you will read this with an open mind. References from Holy Quran and Ahadith about the true meaning of Khatam-un-Nabeen and the belief that an Ummati Nabi can come.https://www.alislam.org/books/truth/finality.html
      Here is another PDF document containing references to Ahadith and various learned Islamic scholars of the past explaining the true meaning of Khatam-un-Nabeen
      http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/Khatam_english.pdfIf you do not find it convenient to go through the reading, also please find below a video link where Ahmadi schoalras are explaining the concept about the true meaning of Khatam-un-Nabeen and the belief that an Ummati Nabi can come. The questions being answered in this link are written belowhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptZuCJDJ0qYQ1 @ 01:55 When the Holy Quran and Sunnah of the Holy Prophet(saw) have been preserved in their original and comprehensive form and the divine mission has been completed by the Holy Prophet Muhammad(saw), all possible need for divine revelation has been fulfilled. How can there be any need for further prophets? Q2 @ 18:35 There is a very clear Hadith of the Holy Prophet(saw) in which he said “La Nabi Ba’adi” (there is no prophet after me), this should leave no doubt about the finality of prophethood. How can you interpret this Hadith any differently and what explanation do you have? Q3 @ 31:35 What is the definition of prophethood? Is the revelation has ended for all times as some Muslims believe?Q4 @ 41:35 What are the different types of prophethoods? Why there is no successive prophets in Muslim Ummah like Mosaic Ummah?

    • search all ways

      When Jesus, the Messiah, finally descends – will there be any question regarding his prophethood? Will the Second Coming of the Messiah, in any way, create a contradiction in terms of the concept of the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad?

      If, for the larger Muslim community, the answer to these questions are no – then why is the finality of prophethood of Muhammad made an issue where the Ahmadi Muslims are concerned? It appears to be a distraction from the actual issue – and that is simply this – was the promise of the Second Coming of Jesus fulfilled in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian.

    • Kaleem

      “Simply reciting the shahada is clearly not sufficient for one to be considered a Muslim.”What other requirements did the Holy Prophet (pbuh) give to entering the fold of Islam?
      You talk about the four madhahib as if they are a source of Islam – they are not. And which ‘muslim community’ are you talking about which has ijma on anything? Malcolm X does not represent the vast majority, and neither does Haddad, Maudoodi, Zakir Naik or any others. This is where i think you are fooling yourself, as well-intentioned as you are. The ‘Ummah’ in the sense of an accepted leadership whose opinions all are bound by simply does not exist, and after the demise of the Holy Prophet (pbuh), the only real Ijma on ANYTHING you can cite is the election of Hadhrat ABu Bakr Sideeq, and even there our Shi’a brethren would disagree!
      You are of course right, in that freedom of religion extends to being able to call anybody anything (including a believer a kafir), but this does not make it right, and certainly shouldn’t be reflected in a legislation which has caused misery and harm to thousands.

  • http://twitter.com/HamdanAzhar Hamdan Azhar

    Some have tried to argue that we face a rigid dichotomy, a black-and-white choice, between considering Ahmadis as fellow Muslims on the one hand and considering them as enemies and waging war against them on the other. This is a false choice, and an offensive and absurd one that must be rejected. An honest understanding of religious freedom requires that just as we accept the freedom of the Ahmadis to believe that they are Muslims and that they are the “saved sect”, we also accept the freedom of Muslims to believe that the Ahmadis are non-Muslims and adherents of a new faith.
     
    A fundamental misunderstanding here is that peaceful coexistence and a spirit of ecumenism require that we cede our ability to delineate the bounds of our faith. Certainly, the fact that we consider Ahmadis to be non-Muslims has certain undeniable implications in the realm of religious observance. Apart from that realm, however, there is nothing preventing us from dealing with Ahmadis as we deal with Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and individuals of all faiths. We deal with them all as our brothers and sisters in humanity, we love them for Allah’s sake and pray for their guidance and well-being, and in so doing, we celebrate our religious freedom and rejoice in the diversity of the human race.

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  • A K

    This thread of 1 true sect and 72 others burning in hell goes way back to many hadith’s which contradicts the following hadith from Bukhary ( sry can’t recall book # ): Aisha ( RA ) said, ” Anyone who says Muhammad  knows the unseen ( or future ) is a liar.”
    More importantly it contradicts the Quran which teaches Muhammad ( SAW ) did not know the future.
    Quran 7:188 ( Y. Ali ) Say: ” I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who faith.”

    • Rayan

      May Allah bless you for sharing this.

      As an aside there are already over 100 sects in Islam.  This 73 idea is a myth. 

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

        Its not a myth, many scholars suggest that this 73 number given is not literal, but rather is just a term used for many.  As for the 100 sects I think thats arguable.  For example, I along with the majority of Muslims do not consider Ahmadis as a sect of Islam.  Some will also suggest that the Druze religion is a sect of Islam and it is not.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

      Actually I think you are wrong, they do not contradict each other.  One states that he does not know the unseen or the future meaning he cant see into the future.  However, that does not mean that Allah has not instructed the Prophet (Saw) about things that will happen in the future.

      • seeker

        Not actually a reply to you but curious to know how Allah  has instructed the Prophet about things that will happen in the future. You seem to be so quick with your tongue ( or fingers ), lit it up.

  • A K

    ‘have faith’

  • http://twitter.com/salawm Salaam B

    Regarding your statement “we don’t have the luxury of dividing ourselves”, does that mean that if there were 100 million Muslims in America, then it would be okay to divide ourselves?  No matter how many Muslims there will be, I don’t believe that there should ever be a time where we utilize such a “luxury”.  

  • A K

    I’ll take wrong to understand the other side’s interpretation. Can any1 expand on how Allah ( SWT ) instructed the Prophet ( SAW ) about things that will happen in the future without revelations in the Quran? Instructed thru which angel? 
    Same verse – different interpretation, and there are more. Love ‘em all, beautiful.

  • achmad

    Dear Brother and Sister,

    i think you should consider ahmadis practices in Indonesia..they’re different in many aspect, and tendency using Jesus/Isa ibn Maryam second coming to legitimate/justify Mirza Ghulam achmad..i’ve spoken with some of them regarding faith..they’ll always say they believe in Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad but in reality they don’t really use it they have their own book of teaching called tadzkirah (if am not mispelled)..

    regarding the article its nice..and great effort

    • Smasha

      Just a small point but I don’t think any Ahmadi reads the ‘Tadzkirah’ over the Quraan. They may have read it sometime or more probably read extracts from it but to say “they have their own book of teaching” is completely wrong.
      Ahmadis read the Holy Quraan, understand it by reading it’s translation and follow it’s teachings.

    • Smasha

      Just a small point but I don’t think any Ahmadi reads the ‘Tadzkirah’ over the Quraan. They may have read it sometime or more probably read extracts from it but to say “they have their own book of teaching” is completely wrong.
      Ahmadis read the Holy Quraan, understand it by reading it’s translation and follow it’s teachings.

    • Smasha

      Just a small point but I don’t think any Ahmadi reads the ‘Tadzkirah’ over the Quraan. They may have read it sometime or more probably read extracts from it but to say “they have their own book of teaching” is completely wrong.
      Ahmadis read the Holy Quraan, understand it by reading it’s translation and follow it’s teachings.

  • http://twitter.com/FarhanYusufzai Farhan

    Outwardly, Islam and the Ahmadiyya Faith are identical, but inwardly they are quite different.

    The primary difference between Islam and the Ahmadiyya faith is that in Ahmadiyya, they believe in new prophets after Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم. Muslims believe that the last and final prophet is Muhammad ibn Abdullah صلى الله عليه و سلم while they believe Mirza Ghulam is a new prophet. This leads to massive differences in theological matters, which take a bit of time to recognize…The issue about ‘Esa bin Maryam (Jesus) living or dying is a secondary distraction.

  • ITouchTheFuture

              Dear readers, peace!

              I appreciate the openness of the article. The writer has played, as he should, the role of a gracious visitor.          The visitor has found much to like. Most notably, he describes the ‘regular Muslim’ (my choice of words) form of all the practices of the Ahmadis he has seen. This should open the eyes of all those who are not yet convinced of the Islamic credentials of the Ahmadis. Consider this: in times of severe trial, as have occurred with painful regularity in Pakistan and other countries, Ahmadis call themselves Muslim and carry on Islamic practices, even when threatened with severe consequences for doing so; in times of relative comfort and order, which many civilized nations around the globe provide, Ahmadis again call themselves Muslim and carry on Islamic practices. During the colonial period under British rule, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his followers maintained peaceful attitudes and invited all to Islam (including Queen Victoria herself); in free countries, whether in the East or the West, present-day followers of the Ahmadi persuasion do EXACTLY the same! If quiet courage and steadfastness be a hallmark of the Godly, who better symbolizes Godliness in this day and age than the Ahmadis?          The site alislam.org is a treasure-trove of information on Islam and other religions; I have learned much there.          I applaud the writer for his efforts and hope to see similar articles about other Muslim groups in the future.          Kindly tone down the vitriol, O nay-sayers! Peace to all!  

  • Osikani

    Thats very good of Ahmadiyya Muslim Mission. In Ghana, the mission is doing very wonderful things about the
    health needs of the people. Its hospitals are located at hinterlands wiith good health practioners whose works have been recognised by nearby countries, like Mali, Cote D;viore etc. May Allah out His grace support all the good works you are doing to promote Islam. As for the popular Islam the better stop opposing the Ahmadiyyas, the better they stand the chance of promoting Islam. Thanks. Kwame Baah Ghana.

  • Abdul Chaudhary

    As an Ahmadi, I don’t have any problem with anyone else calling me a Kaafir. It does not matter what anyone in this world believes and they have the right to believe what they want. I can not stress this point enough. IT DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is what Allah does. The problem I have is when they start using the Government of a country to start declaring someone none Muslim and start persecuting them. We Ahmadies are definitely different from other Muslims. For one thing our leaders don’t believe in terrorism. I know there are many Muslims who don’t believe in terrorism but their leaders for the most part encourage terrorism especially in Muslim countries. I am glad they don’t consider me part of them.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

      What are you talking about, your prophet supported the biggest terrorism of all, British Imperialism.  Much of today’s terrorism can be traced to the problems left behind by the British Imperialism.

      • Abdul Chaudhary

        This what you guys use to justify terrorism against the western Nations.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

          Actually it was used to justify rightful resistance against colonial aggression.  The greater India region was being exploited like they were slaves.  And your “Prophet” was happy with that arrangement and helped in maintaining it.  By your standard Ghandi was wrong, the Algerian Revolution was wrong, the Egyptian revolution of the 50s was wrong, Nearly every revolution in Africa and the Middle East was wrong, the American revolution was wrong.  I’m sorry that you are not wise enough to discover the truth, but your fradulent prophet was the a british agent with the sole goal of dividing the Muslim community and turning them against each other so that England could continue to exploit its colonies.  Fortunately there werent many foolish enough to believe that fraud.  If you look at every major prophet they came and shook the political establishment and turned it upside down.  Moses rebeled against the Pharaoh, Jesus rebelled against both the senior Rabbis and Roman rule, Muhammed (saw) rebelled against the Kuraish’s tribal governing system.  Your prophet tried to maintain the unjust status quo of exploitative colonialism.  Thats a fact.

          • Abdul Chaudhary

            Like I said, we are different from mainstream Muslims. We are loyal to
            the Government of the country we live in. Mainstream Muslims define that
            as terrorism. Their leaders don’t think suicide bombers and people who
            fly planes into buildings for the only purpose of killing civilians are
            terrorists, but we do.

          • Abdul Chaudhary

            The struggles of Gandhi and other leaders were political. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a religious leader and he was happy that the British allowed religious freedom. All the other prophets also struggled for religious freedom. Jesus did not fight against the Roman Empire. He said give to Caesar what is his… Moses did not fight. He just left Egypt. There are countless other Prophets Noah and Adam for example. Every prophet has a different mission. Everyone was doing what their mission was.
            The only reason you respect the Christians and Jews is you live in a Christian country. You are only speaking for yourself. The majority of Muslims in this world and in Muslim countries want to shed the blood of jews. Actually you guys believe that Jesus is going to come back and shed the blood of Christians and Jews. You do not love the Jews… You only hate them less than you hate the Ahmadies.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

            I never said we love the Jews, and actually you are wrong about the last part of shedding the blood.  I said Islam provides tolerance of the Jewish and Christian faith.  They get special status as “People of the Book” and as such are not considered kaffirs.   That is why there are a certain number of priveleges, for one Muslims can eat their meat, Muslim men can marry their women without having them convert, and under Islamic rule they were allowed to worship.  These rights were not extended to hindus for example or any other religous group.  In fact, when the Muslims returned to Mecca victorius led by  the Prophet, the first thing they did was destroy the idols around the ka’ba.  So in terms of religous tolerance it is clear what groups are entitled to it and what groups arent.  The Ahmadya have broken away from Islam in favor of a British puppet.  As for allowing people to practice religion freely, what good is that if they are treating the country like a playground and treating its people like slaves.  Now you try and make a distinction between spirtiual and political, but your leader was very much political, and no matter how naive you are, anyone with common sense knows it was a great dishonor to have supported such a savage and brutal system as British Colonialism.  I think its very clear that the motivation of your prophet in the first place was to help the British divide and conquer the Muslims.

    • Adnan A.

      You and your leaders don’t believe in terrorism because you have been on the “right” side of history writers of today. Your leader aided the biggest terrorists of the day, European, specifically British colonialism. Every new prophet’s followers called themselves by a different name, Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. We don’t really have a problem is you believe in a prophet after Mohammed, but please don’t commit identity theft on a global and historical scale – go call yourselves something else, Mirzai, whatever, but not “Muslims”. Period.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Duston-Barto/542722033 Duston Barto

    I’m not altogether sure how to feel about this.  
    I need to do some more reading on this sect before I make any statements.  I feel like a lot of the comments on this page are spouted out by people who have not done full research.  These people say they are Muslim and they pray to Allah (SWT).  For now that is sufficient for me to say “As-Salaam Alaikum” and embrace them; if my later reading shows me that the Amhadis are not right then I would approach them as a  Muslim brother in gentle tones and words rather than approaching them as a kaffir or apostate as many here are doing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Duston-Barto/542722033 Duston Barto

    I’m not altogether sure how to feel about this.  
    I need to do some more reading on this sect before I make any statements.  I feel like a lot of the comments on this page are spouted out by people who have not done full research.  These people say they are Muslim and they pray to Allah (SWT).  For now that is sufficient for me to say “As-Salaam Alaikum” and embrace them; if my later reading shows me that the Amhadis are not right then I would approach them as a  Muslim brother in gentle tones and words rather than approaching them as a kaffir or apostate as many here are doing.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

      I approach a Christian or a Jew as more of a brother then an Ahmadi.  The difference being at one point both Judaism and Christanity were the correct religion to follow.  Thats why they are not considered kaafir, thats why we can eat their meat, and thats why we can marry their women.  The Ahmadis on the other hand took the right religion and began to corrupt it.  I advise you to specifically research their prophet’s relation with the British who at that point had occupied India.  Many believe he was an agent for the British with the intent of divide and conquer.  Infact he admits to aiding the British and trying to convince other Muslim countries to embrace British rule (we saw how well that turned out with Palestine)

      • Nor Cal

        Jews and Christian as brothers?? They said Prophet Muhammad is a false prophet anti christ a pedophile wer lord etc. They may be your brothers but they don’t even accept Muhammad saw as a true prophet. Us Ahmadi Muslims are following true Islam period.

  • arabmoney

     you might as well have went to a church. kaafirs gon’ be kaafirs

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

      Actually a church wouldve been much better, in Islam jews and christians get special status as “people of the book”  and are not considered kaafirs.  Furthermore the Christians and Jews followed legitimate prophets (Jesus and Moses)  Thats why for example a Muslim man can marry a christian or jewish woman without having her convert.  The Ahmaddis follow an illegitimate fraudulent prophet not recognized by Islam, and therefore are kaafirs.

      • Abdul Chaudhary

        The Christians and Jews believe that Muslims follow an illegitimate fraudulent prophet not recognized their religions. According to Ahmadies they have the right to do that but according to your terrorist interpretation of Islam they must be put to death if they say that out loud in Pakistan.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

          First of all I never mentioned death or violence of any kind, other then just resistance during the colonial occupation of India by the British.  Secondly, its fine for the jews and christians to feel that way, because the jews also feel jesus is a fraud.  The difference is as a Muslim I dont identify myself as a christian or a jew I follow a new prophet which means I belong to a new religion.  The Ahamdis on the other hand follow a new prophet and still want to say they are Muslim.  That simply doesnt work.  This issue is not unique to Islam either, for example there is a similar group called “Jews for Jesus” its a sect of Jews who believe in Jesus, and as a result are frequently met with persecution and excommunication by more traditional Jews.  People dont like it when a group tries to steal their religion and corrupt it, that is universal.

        • Adnan A.

          …yes, they do, but we didn’t claim to be “Christians” or “Jews”, so stop calling yourselves “Muslims” and there will be no bad feelings between us.

    • Abuladd

      Speaking of “kaafirs”……who be all da folk selling that swine, lottery and ignorant oil to our people?  All around the US of A.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3OLCZQ5HHHP277UQVXC6KXPECU Twocents

    I just want to clarify a little bit of misunderstanding in the article that there are always female presidents on the local and national levels in the Ahmadiiya Muslim Community, but they overlook the women’s auxiliary of the community. They are also consulted in general matters of community as a whole. They have elaborate programs pertaining to education, training, social works etc which they prepare and execute independently.

    As for all the other allegations, please visit the official Ahmadiyya website and learn what the Ahmadis actual believe. All the allegations here in the comments are based on lies told by the main stream Muslim “scholars” of today regarding which the Prophet of Islam had warned that a time will come when they would be the worse creatures under the sky.

    Here’s a page that specifically lists articles refuting allegations against Islam in general and against Ahmadiyyat:
    http://www.alislam.org/topics/reply/

    The home page for the official Ahmadiyya website is: http://www.alislam.org

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  • Abuladd

    Having reviewed “Buried’s” messages and developed a good insight into his knowledge level and capacity for critical thinking and research….I conclude that he is actually serving a useful and valuable service to the readers of these Posts.
    “Buried” is a representative example of the mindset and mentality of those who do not accept the teachings and claims of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
    “Buried” has not correctly stated a single claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, except…..that he claimed to be a Prophet sent by God to reform the Muslims in the Latter Days.
    Whether Ahmad is a fraud or not, by claiming to be a Prophet,  can be reasonably debated by people with doubts about his claim.  
    A reasonable critic would establish a common and accepted criteria as to what constitutes the veracity of a claimant to Prophethood and then proceed to examine any claims that Ahmad might have made.
    This is a very basic and simple test that can be undertaken by any sincere person.
    However, sadly, “Buried” will not take that test, because he is certain of the outcome, he is certain in his knowledge and he has no fear of God.

    I will now make a prophecy.  “Buried” will follow in the footsteps of Jimmy Swaggert.  I don’t know how we will find this out, but I have firm faith that we will.  Some of you, who know “Buried” will bear witness.

    Abu Bakr Ladd  Aug. 18, 2011

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

      First of all you know nothing of my capacity for critical thinking and research, believe me they are both quite high because my profession greatly requires it.  Second of all I completely disagree with how a “reasonable critic” as you put it would approach an argument.  Before you can even think of prophethood and uttering someone’s name along with other prophets the logical thing to do would be to examine the views and actions of the person at hand.  Since your “prophet” is from the 19th-20th century he is very well documented.  The first thing that you will notice as I have mentioned in my other posts, is his history of collaboration with the British in their colonization of India and their ambitions for the greater Muslim world.  Now any “reasonable critic” would tell you that the British colonization of India was one the darkest times in the history of the region, in fact if you examine British colonization in general you will find that it is responsible for much of the conflict in the world today.  Here are a few examples, The Palestinian-Israeli Conflict, The disappearance of the Kurdish state, the Kashmir Conflict, the tensions between Iraq and Kuwait over borders.  Your “prophet” is not only quoted supporting British colonialism, but he himself wrote many books and magazines in favor of it.  He was also used in trying to convince other Muslim countries that British rule was in their interest, this was done to break the Ottoman Empire which held the Muslim world together, and directly lead to the occupation of Palestine.  So as a critical thinker, there is no need for me to examine the prophethood issue, because his actions and words speak clearly to his character.  As I mentioned earlier If you look at every major prophet they came and shook the political
      establishment and turned it upside down.  Moses rebeled against the
      Pharaoh, Jesus rebelled against both the senior Rabbis and Roman rule,
      Muhammed (saw) rebelled against the Kuraish’s tribal governing system. 
      Your prophet tried to maintain the unjust status quo of exploitative
      colonialism.  These are all critical facts that are widely available, but you would rather not look at facts, you instead would rather engage in philosophical arguments based on opinion that will not result in any conclusion.  All that is necessary is for you to examine his actions and his motives and the answer is clear. I think it is hilarious that you end your argument by making a “prophecy” about someone you dont know at all, a I guess with you guys anyone really can be a “prophet.”

      • icare

        I want to find out more on ‘collaboration with the British political context’ for my own research. In your profession if you have done such work please post the link. I am looking at others too, Brahmmo Samaj, Bahai movement, etc. and the British colonial project. Thanks!

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

          I didnt mean i researched this specific issue for work, I meant my job requires critical thinking and research.  But as for this issue, the information is widely available even the wikipedia page for their Prophet briefly covers his collaboration.

      • Abuladd

        Peace

      • Fs

        Welldone brother you are the only one with the knowledge here sadly not writing skills are not that great………………but I just noticed thses guys are like bees I think this is new recruitment for them they are more the fifteen or sixteen of them …………………one of my best friends is an Ahmedi and i know they can sound so polite its amazing all of them are trained to brainwash people who lack knowlegde of islam…………….very misleading people who do not know who they are actually think of them as normal muslims…………………but you keep it up…….well done.

        • Abuladd

          OK  let me get this right Fs………………one of your “best friends” is an Ahmadi !  Has he “brainwashed” you yet or are you one of those who is sufficiently “knowledgeable” to ward off his “polite” attempts to fool you into believing that he is a “normal” Muslim?

          I know what you mean about the lack of “writing” skills on the part of buried…why do you think that is?   And yes, there are more than fiftenn or sixteen of us and we are indeed trying to recruit people.  We are sincerely praying that your “best Ahmadi friend” succeeds in “brainwashing” you so that you will come over to “our” side.

          Once your “brain” has been “washed” you will be easily able to understand our teachings.

          But to be fair to you….I want to warn you.  Do not drink his tea or food.  There is a rumor that the “Ahmadis” put something in the food or drink of people and that is why so many people are  accepting Ahmadiyyat.

          Just last year, I met this guy, he was from India, a “real” Muslim and he lived not to far from Qadian.  He was a sincere person and so he decided that he would go to Qadian and teach the “Qadianis” what real Islam was all about. 

          He consulted with one Maulvi, who warned him not to do it, since it is well known that Ahmadis put something in the food or tea, which then affects the person to embrace Ahmadiyyat.  But the guy could not be dissuaded and he said that he would play it safe and so he brought his own food and drink with him. 

          He went to Qadian …..spent three days there talking with people, only eating and drinking his own food, and lo and behold, after three days he became an Ahmadi!!!

          He is a very learned guy who has memorized the Holy Quran and now he is serving as a teacher for the Ahmadis.   Unless the ” real Muslims ” can figure out a better strategy, soon, all of them will be either “brainwashed” or starve to death.

          Peace brother

  • Abdul Chaudhary

    Like I said, we are different from mainstream Muslims. We are loyal to the Government of the country we live in. Mainstream Muslims define that as terrorism. Their leaders don’t think suicide bombers and people who fly planes into buildings for the only purpose of killing civilians are terrorists, but we do.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KJB6IH45HBV4PFIPHAY4GQURCQ buriedinlit

      I think a terrorist is a man who betrays his own people to help a foreign invader, like your prophet did.

  • Abdul Chaudhary

    Like I said, we are different from mainstream Muslims. We are loyal to the Government of the country we live in. Mainstream Muslims define that as terrorism. Their leaders don’t think suicide bombers and people who fly planes into buildings for the only purpose of killing civilians are terrorists, but we do.

  • Yankel222

    We are honored to have made friends with members of your community. Our discussions with you have been educational, and the food we have shared with you has been delicious, We  consider the Ahmadi individuals we have met as good, peaceful, loving people. May Hashem bestow His blessings for peaceful coexistence and love  upon you, and also upon all people who agree or disagree with your beliefs.

  • Umer

    Mashallah, Ahmadi Muslims enable their brothers & sisters to have a mosque in their localities. Islam spreads like wild fire except it does not burn, it loves.

  • Umer

    Mashallah, Ahmadi Muslims enable their brothers & sisters to have a mosque in their localities. Islam spreads like wild fire except it does not burn, it loves.

  • Umer

    Mashallah, Ahmadi Muslims enable their brothers & sisters to have a mosque in their localities. Islam spreads like wild fire except it does not burn, it loves.

  • Liaqat

    Nicely put and very balanced; as a practicing Sunni Muslim who met Mirza Tahir Beg (one of the Khalifas) in Pakistan in the early 80′s I have always been tremendously impressed with the erudition and strong sense of community displayed within the Ahmadis. It is not for such as me to judge who is blessed and who will end up in heaven. However I have find the wrong-headed violent expression against the Ahmadi community and other minorities by my erst-while countrymen in Pakistan to be abhorrent. For those commentators who judge, a word of caution, as it is a slippery slope as evinced by the violence against the Shia community who they would agree are considered Muslims; right? Grew up with Christian, Hindu and Muslim classmates (still keep in touch with them) and frankly find I have more in common with them than with some Muslims from different cultural backgrounds. I truly believe in keeping an inclusive and open mind. ‘Judge not lest ye be judged’ for frankly I would surely be found wanting…
    Nice job on the blog guys; keep it up what a fantastic idea and great execution.

  • Anonymous

    Seeing all the comments below I think it would make a good addition if you visited the Ahmadis in London and reported back on it. See what they’re really like, how their organisation is run.

  • Adnan

    Please donot confuse the Muslims by Mixing Muslims & Ahmadis togather.

    • Aqeel

      Asalamoalaikum brother Adnan
      I agree with you brother there should be no confusion between Ahmedies and Muslim as they are the same thing J. Ahmadiyyat = true Islam.

    • Aqeel

      Asalamoalaikum brother Adnan
      I agree with you brother there should be no confusion between Ahmedies and Muslim as they are the same thing J. Ahmadiyyat = true Islam.

    • Aqeel

      Asalamoalaikum brother Adnan
      I agree with you brother there should be no confusion between Ahmedies and Muslim as they are the same thing J. Ahmadiyyat = true Islam.

    • Aqeel

      Asalamoalaikum brother Adnan
      I agree with you brother there should be no confusion between Ahmedies and Muslim as they are the same thing J. Ahmadiyyat = true Islam.

  • Adnan A.

    It is one thing for muslims to be balanced and be accepting of others and its another to close their eyes to history and the basics of the faith. For one thing, it is a basic tenet of Islam that Mohammed is the seal of the prophets, thus any person or group carrying a belief contrary to that is definitely out of the fold of Islam. Please consider the history of the Khilafat of Abu Bakar, how many such apostate prophets he fought against.
    On the other hand homosexuality is a taboo topic amongst muslims – very wrong. Today, the homosexual community is strong and very loud. We have to be able to discuss it and teach our children (who will be most affected by it) what this is and what is it’s status in Islam. My understanding is that homosexuality is definitely not a hindrance to being a muslim, however it is discouraged and considered a mental state that needs to be corrected. Punishment for such behavior is proscribed only after much attempt has been made to correct this behavior.
    And only Allah knows best.
    My brothers on the road, there are no mainstream, middle of the road Islam, and extremist Islam. Islam IS the middle path – and all others, are deviant and extremist MUSLIMS.

  • seef

    Sure Ahmadiyyas are great, worldly wise, but on the day of Judgment, I will face my Creator, and when He asks me if I believed His message and His messenger, I am NOT going to be one of those d-bags that says, ‘which one?’ I am not telling other people what to believe, not directly, anyway, but this is what God told me to believe.
    The Muslims that Allah likes best? The unmodified unprefixed unhyphenated ones. Have the courage to just be Muslim.

  • seef

    Reading some of the posts here, I am reminder of what the grandmother of Basheer, the Sioux convert, said:”If you don’t understand something, leave it.” Parsing the arcane tenets of Ahmadiyyas does not bring me closer to Allah, so I’m going to leave it. And I will never pretend that it will ever bring me closer to Allah than the path I’m already on.

  • Syed A. Zafar

    I appreciate this constructive discussion. I believe when we are lost, confused or have difference of opinion, we must seek help from God Almighty who has clearly directed us to pray and seek help from him only. The prayer “Edenasserat-ul- mustaqeem” (bless me with straight/right path) is the key to achieve true vision and success. And in order to be at  “Sirat-ul-mustaqeem”, one has to further pray for “Siratat-al-lazeena anamtaa alaihim, ghair-il-maghzoobe alaihim, walazzaleen” (the ways of those whom you (God) granted awards because of their obedience and good deeds and not of those who denied to obey God’s commandments and being punished) This complete prayer is the key to earn Allah’s blessings and guidance and mother of all solutions to our disputes, problems and conflicts. But this prayer can only be heard, when we pray it with clear/open minds and honest intentions. We must realize that hatred for other fellow human beings on the basis of color, race or religion is not what any true religion or society teaches us. Besides, there is no where in Islamic teachings or in holy Quran written that Allah (God) is Rabb-ul-Muslemeen (God belongs to Muslims only) or our prophet Mohammad (saw) is Rahmat-ul-Muslemeen or Rahamatt-ul-Sunnaeen (prophet Mohammad is blessings for Muslims/Sunnaeen only) But it is written all over that Allah is Rabb-ul-Aalameen (God of all the worlds) and prophet Mohammad (saw) is Rahmat-ul-Aalameen” (blessing for entire humanity) May Allah Almighty bless us with true vision, tolerance, love for all and hatred for none, aameen. zafarsyed40@yahoo.com


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